Chip & Signature - confused by Chip and PIN!

At 17:39:20 on 29/08/2005, snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Well of course they are since it's the issuers who are liable for any subsequent fraud.

At 17:39:20 on 29/08/2005, snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Almost certainly not, since PINPads have to be designed to meet the requirements of the DDA. If they meet the requirements of the DDA, there's surely no need to offer an alternative.

The big issue is misleading information from card issuers. Magazines such as WHICH? are inferring you wont be able to sign soon unless you have a disability. Simply not true, but it's what the card industry would like us to believe, and WHICH? certainly know a lot better than to mislead the public. The problems faced by pensionsers of Reading and possibly millions of others are not being adddressed.

By the way if I were partially sighted or blind I wouldn't be asking the question can I manage a PIN pad. I would be asking the questions: How can I tell if someone is watching me enter my PIN? How would I know that no devices are attached to an ATM which records my PIN, etc etc.

The DDA only requires reasonable accommodation, if someone's disability would require very expensive modification, then it does not have to be carried out. There must also be people who have a mental disability which interferes with remembering numbers.

In message , snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk writes

That would always have been a problem, C&P or not.

In message , snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk writes

It is not very difficult to get a chip and signature card. You just need to explain that you have great difficulty remembering numbers and that the only way around the problem for yourself is write them down which is clearly not a solution in this case. Front line staff will tell you initially that you have to have some form of related disability before they can issue a chip and signature card. You just need to persevere until they refer it up the line when it becomes clear that there is in fact no need for the customer to have such a disability and that they would be happy to arrange for a signature based card (which of course may not be used at ATMs). I have recently arranged for such cards from B'card and N'wide.

I think we all owe it to the pensioner in the case below and everyone else who has any sort of problems with PINs that Chip & Signature cards are available and they should be made aware that they are:

""I've had ladies in tears at the counter because they can't remember their pin numbers. They just feel so humiliated. It really isn't fair on them, this new system."

In message , snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk writes

The primary problem here is not C&P but the fact that there was a problem with her Giro.

As a result she needed some cash and because it was out of banking hours and she couldnt remember her pin she couldnt get that cash.

She wouldnt have been able to get that cash prior to C&P because ATMs dont take signatures.

The report then decides to ask cashiers about a separate problem that they encounter at their tills, which is in no way connected to the original story.

This is just another example of C&P misinformation.

John,

Another damming statement from someone at the coal face:

"""I've had ladies in tears at the counter because they can't remember their pin numbers. They just feel so humiliated. It really isn't fair on them, this new system.""

I'm not old and fortunately not disabled but I do have difficulty remembering numbers sometimes and I am not the only one. To gain entry to my place of work we use a number operated lock. If I have a fortnights holiday, I like many others can be seen outside awaiting someone who knows the combination!

It must be a lot worse locked out of your account!

... and as far as I know, there is no sig alternative with the Post Office payment cards for benefits, even though you have to sign it, (and as mentioned in another thread, the card never leaves your possession, so they don't check it anyway.)

Putrid poetry, dismal doggerel, extrava-stanzas...

In message , snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk writes

I agree. You miss my point completely. I have no argument with the point made above.

I was merely pointing out that the problem for the lady was not Chip & Pin, but PINs in general.

Sorry John - the lady in question and millions of other (The Telegraph) have problems with PINs. PO Card Accounts and Basic Bank Accounts can only be used with a PIN.

Is the DWP shortchanging consumers who have difficulty with PINs? Why are these types of cards not compliant with the rules for plastic cards in general? i.e. people who have difficulty with PINs are advised to contact their card issuer. Sandra Quinn, APACS today on Radio 4.

At 21:05:43 on 10/09/2005, snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Is the Post Office a member of APACS?

Citibank administer PO card accounts and they are members of APACS!

There is more to the DDA than PINpads. The post office around here all have stairs and are not wheelchair accessible. The other day I saw a man sitting in a wheelchair outside the post office, he gave his card to a post office employee, who withdrew the cash for him, then gave him back his card and his money. Since he told her his PIN, he would have no recourse if she had misused the card and the PIN.

At 22:06:11 on 13/09/2005, snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

That answers that question then :-)

In message , Alex writes

No it doesnt. It doesnt mean that Citibank applies the APACS guidelines tp the PO Card. The PO Card isnt a 'bank card', it is just a 'card'.

At 21:12:28 on 14/09/2005, john boyle delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Of course it does! That question was "Is the Post Office a member of APACS?" It doesn't, of course, answer the previous question.

In message , Alex writes

How does it answer that question?