Chip and Pin - More secure for who?

Jane doesn't have to come up with a solution for the argument against chip and pin to be successful. It only has to be the case that it's less secure for the customer.

People can already withdraw money on their credit cards, but are unlikely to because they can also do this at a lower cost on their debit cards. Having to memorize a pin for your credit card increases the chance of someone using their credit card instead of their debit card at a cashpoint and incurring the extra charges.

Are you incapable of having a rational argument with someone without being patronising?

I'm not a fund manager or a shareholder in a pension company, but I'm sure you're right and ultimately I'll make a lot of money from chip and pin. When do you expect interest rates to rise in savings accounts and lower in mortgages and overdrafts? Or will I receive a lump-sum from my bank? This year? Next? I'd be interested to know.

How do you work that out?

Without a hint of irony, snipped-for-privacy@altavista.co.uk (Fred Bloggs) astounded uk.finance on 08 Sep 2004 by announcing:

And how is EMV any less secure than non-chip cards in this case?

Your question isn't particularly relevant to this technology.

Without a hint of irony, john boyle astounded uk.finance on 07 Sep 2004 by announcing:

Not impossible, but impractical for your run-of-the-mill skimmer etc.

Without a hint of irony, "Tim" astounded uk.finance on 08 Sep

It's called a service code. Nothing to stop the service code being changed, howevr.

Without a hint of irony, snipped-for-privacy@altavista.co.uk (Fred Bloggs) astounded uk.finance on 08 Sep 2004 by announcing:

No you won't. You can request a Chip & Signature card if you really feel that strongly about it.

Not that one though. He was charged and lost his job. Only after years did he get it overturned.

FoFP

Hmm, all my current cards clearly have a chip embedded and look just like the example cards on the c&p bumf that arrives continually. Yet all the bumf also says that the issuers are only just starting to send out enabled cards and it looks like some years before all mine get replaced. Which begs the question: what is the chip on my existing cards for ?

"M Holmes" wrote

Did he get years backpay as compo??

The last time I heard about frog marching people to cash points was when Tony Blair came up with the idea after his knee jerked yet again. Mind you, to be fair, he didn't actually mention knives. (Someone had muzzled Blunkett just in time, or given him a Braille photo of desirable American ladies. Why do his fingers always stray to a small collection of dots near the bottom?)

However, back on the subject of PINs and I have been asked twice now to tap in mine! I like it. I hate signing my name in full view of anybody watching. As I don't sign my name very often, I get nervous, my hand shakes, and then my signature goes to pot. The number pad is a lot more satisfactory. Plus, observing the huge swathes of grumbling customers come Jan 1st who don't know their PIN will be better than any reality TV show! But the shops and card companies are going to have to speed up their act, as the verification process is taking seconds longer than a quick glance at a signature. Multiply 5 to 10 seconds by the number of card transactions and there will be queues everywhere. Have any of the larger retail outlets considered this? How about M & S dealing with the post-Christmas surge in refunds and exchanges? Heck, if only I could sell Schadenfreude!

MM

Just say: "Oh, I am sorry, I do not speak Gaelic."

MM

Never mind. When Blunkett gets his compulsory national identity card through, it will stop the mugger dead in his tracks, won't it? The mugger will say: "Cor blimey, guv, I dunno wot yer game is, but you've got protection!" and slink off into the detritus of High Street litter.

MM

Err no, not as easy, much easier. All it needs is the ability to memorise four digits.

It takes no time at all to pick someone's pocket.

Without a hint of irony, John Laird astounded uk.finance on 08 Sep 2004 by announcing:

For confirming that it's a valid card, perhaps? Except in the case of the original Amex chip cards, where it was used purely as a marketing gimmick IIRC.

It doesn't work in that combination, the pin works injunction with the chip (well doh!) you're never asked for magstripe + pin (cash points aside).

Properly configured terminals have been asking for chip + signature when encountering chip&pin cards, the preference is always toward the chip.

Az.

In message , Alex writes

Hence my use of the word 'almost'!

They did this in Manchester to a series of people before chip and pin and don't actually let you go until they've got some money.

Perhaps there should be an alternative "fallback" PIN that you give to the muggers which will give them a tenner only and make it look like that's all you have to your name (ie give a false account balance). Then at least they won't think that your'e a "rich bastad" who deserves a beating! I remember someone telling me you should always carry a tenner in cash in case you are mugged (not that a tenner goes far these days!).

Except I've only ever had a card swiped. No doubt some machines exist to make contact with the chip, but it baffles me that money was spent producing cards with chips which would (apparently) not function with the chip-n-pin readers being rolled out now. The oldest card I have was issued nearly 2 years ago. The other two (from BoS) arrived within weeks of one another this year, followed within days of the most recent by the "chip and pin is coming, when you get your *next* card..." letters. Which will be 2006...

In message , John Laird writes

I have a mixture of cards of every combination of chip/sig/mag etc., Some changed to C&P on normal renewal and for some a completely new replacement card has arrived a year or so before the expiry date on the old card.