How far bank can UK banks really get credit card statements?

father dying of cancer for one hell of a ride.
The father, fundamental Methodist, with hindsight financially naive, was blackmailed into helping the individual because if he declared bankrupcy (instead of continuing with an IVA) at court his accountant would be exposed as "having committed false accounting and struck off". Two major creditors, NatWest and mortgage & second mortgage lender, refused to enter the IVA; the debts were vast. When the father asked how much the individual owed, the reply was "if I tell you, you will not give me any money because you have not got enough".
The individual had "lived the public school idiot spending life" much like Killing Mum & Dad from the same private school (Liverpool College), had raged at clients for money, had refused to pay interest or charges "I am the Elite!", had sent clients crying back to their employer raging "I am the Artist, not you" so they refused to employee him anymore and controlled 78% of the market (June 1992 according to the daughter of the CEO of the company, at the same university & hall of residence as the son).
The individual convinced the father that "everything comes to the oldest of the family, I am the next head of the family, my wife is upper class and that is how it works" and the other son "does not matter". He boasted of 1991 £85k & 1992 £92k turnoever interchanging "profit" and "turnover" as "they are the same thing". The father accused him of "living like a millionaire". The son was just too young to do much, but knew the history of the school from 1984 and challenged him over the income. A lot of the bailout had gone on silently whilst the son was at university and he knew nothing of his fathers earnings or finances, he just worked, saved & invested. His money, because he knew there would be little to help him and did not want the bill.
Wife & Son knew the father was helping the individual, but did not know how much.
The father tried to give the house to the individual. Finding the house was also in the name of his wife he telephoned the individual who replied "yes, but you can borrow against the house and get the money that way". Before the father died of cancer he signed application forms for two more credit cards, the week after his death the credit cards & credit card cheques arrived with £6300 and £4200 limits, plus a form for yet another credit card for the individual.
The father had liquidated his wifes investments. A scanned impossibly small jagged signature had been used, but since the documents were faxed the receiving thermal fax machine masked this.
The father tried to get the sons investments. PEP investments were from earnings pre, during & post university and easily proved by bank statements. The fund manager contacted the son to advise his father had tried to liquidate the investments. The individual finding out the father could not get the investments repled on the telephone "give me the details and I will get the money off them". The mistake of sending financial statements home whilst at university.
The individual visited the son working as a postgrad at university on 16.2k/yr salary and a further 2.1k/yr from othe business work with overheads of 38/week rent "the sooner you get rid of things like that", smashing a speaker into the wall, "and start living like a student the better". The son saved >600/month into investments with bank statements to prove it. The son recalls the wife saying one summer "you are the problem" as they dragged him out of bed and shoved him with their knees on the floor. The private school accessed the son's statements from parents working at natwest wavertree, the statements were found all over the school grounds.
The father died. The son got the bill. The widow would not break the transactions due to fear and due to the number of institutions involved I suspect it would have been deemed uneconomic re legal cost. Since the father was a methodist the house & contents were in a serious state of disrepair. The father had destroyed a lot of statements yet hidden others so it was never known how much until found recently.
The bailout began 1982 re CCJ & creditors, the individual had tried repeatedly to get the house as guarantor through 1986, investments from golden handshake of 38.5k & wife mother's house sale at 19k plus disposable income of 6k-11k from 1984-1996 were gone. What was left was a 14k debt, huge backlog of maintenance & broken appliances, carpets in holes, most wiring disconnected, leaks, no heating, widow with negative disposable income.
Screaming for money by the individual did not stop. The individual & his wife repeatedly wanted the widows income paid to them so she could claim benefit "to put it back", "you do not have to tell them your income", want the house letting as soon as she is out of it. The individual has received about 6500 in xmas & birthday presents and 2000 from a small inheritance. The individual actually demanded all the inheritance "the accountant and I have decided you should give everything to us". The other son meanwhile had nothing, does not expect an inheritance, nothing has been done with that in mind. He was warned as a child that the father was a fundamental methodist and the individual instead of protecting the father milked him. The individual teaches at a private school, raging down the phone for money "I can not live on that!" despite peppercorn rent on school provided house.
Recently the individual tried getting money again, "she is supposed to have forgotten about that by now so I can have it all again" and demanding all her very small investments and remaining widows occupational pension be paid to him with her claiming benefit to put it back "we know how the system works".
The widow IS protected. She realises there is no-one left to bail her out again. Two lawyers will prevent the individual getting her money to pay off their & their student children debts (because recovery is near impossible, they live in a peppercorn rent private school house).
The son is ALMOST protected. He has every bank account statement, investment statement, original letters & replies re fake signatures & IVA letters, student grant letters, paypal to personal cash receipt, every bill, every document scanned to hard drive and magneto optical disk in three countries, complete detailed spreadsheets of everything, diaries the lot. Employers linked to the school have repeatedly tried blackmailing him to little effect, he simply moves. Vandalism by employers ramming his car is routine.
Almost. The son lacks 1994-1995 father's credit card statements. The accountant used them to launder money because so much had been taken and to hide from creditors & benefits agency. The statement entries are very obvious business suppliers, circa 4300-7200 each year.
Widow letters to Natwest credit card services received no reply, telephone put down. A recent letter got a reply to the local branch who telephoned to say they could only get the last 7 years. NatWest did bring up electronic Current Account statements back to Dec 1992. I thought money laundering rules in 1988 & 1996 required long term retention.
Q - how long do banks keep credit card statements?
I was told they were kept on microfiche in a London basement, perhaps no longer due to the inordinate overhead in keeping them and thus disposed of re "big-bang" 1992?
Moral: families keep money in your own name & set strict limits on bailouts to family members.
Reply to
js.b1

Over at least 1990-1996 an individual & corrupt accountant took a father dying of cancer for one hell of a ride.
The father, fundamental Methodist, with hindsight financially naive, was blackmailed into helping the individual because if he declared bankrupcy (instead of continuing with an IVA) at court his accountant would be exposed as "having committed false accounting and struck off". Two major creditors, NatWest and mortgage & second mortgage lender, refused to enter the IVA; the debts were vast. When the father asked how much the individual owed, the reply was "if I tell you, you will not give me any money because you have not got enough".
The individual had "lived the public school idiot spending life" much like Killing Mum & Dad from the same private school (Liverpool College), had raged at clients for money, had refused to pay interest or charges "I am the Elite!", had sent clients crying back to their employer raging "I am the Artist, not you" so they refused to employee him anymore and controlled 78% of the market (June 1992 according to the daughter of the CEO of the company, at the same university & hall of residence as the son).
The individual convinced the father that "everything comes to the oldest of the family, I am the next head of the family, my wife is upper class and that is how it works" and the other son "does not matter". He boasted of 1991 85k & 1992 92k turnoever interchanging "profit" and "turnover" as "they are the same thing". The father accused him of "living like a millionaire". The son was just too young to do much, but knew the history of the school from 1984 and challenged him over the income. A lot of the bailout had gone on silently whilst the son was at university and he knew nothing of his fathers earnings or finances, he just worked, saved & invested. His money, because he knew there would be little to help him and did not want the bill.
Wife & Son knew the father was helping the individual, but did not know how much.
The father tried to give the house to the individual. Finding the house was also in the name of his wife he telephoned the individual who replied "yes, but you can borrow against the house and get the money that way". Before the father died of cancer he signed application forms for two more credit cards, the week after his death the credit cards & credit card cheques arrived with 6300 and 4200 limits, plus a form for yet another credit card for the individual.
The father had liquidated his wifes investments. A scanned impossibly small jagged signature had been used, but since the documents were faxed the receiving thermal fax machine masked this.
The father tried to get the sons investments. PEP investments were from earnings pre, during & post university and easily proved by bank statements. The fund manager contacted the son to advise his father had tried to liquidate the investments. The individual finding out the father could not get the investments repled on the telephone "give me the details and I will get the money off them". The mistake of sending financial statements home whilst at university.
The individual visited the son working as a postgrad at university on 16.2k/yr salary and a further 2.1k/yr from othe business work with overheads of 38/week rent "the sooner you get rid of things like that", smashing a speaker into the wall, "and start living like a student the better". The son saved >600/month into investments with bank statements to prove it. The son recalls the wife saying one summer "you are the problem" as they dragged him out of bed and shoved him with their knees on the floor. The private school accessed the son's statements from parents working at natwest wavertree, the statements were found all over the school grounds.
The father died. The son got the bill. The widow would not break the transactions due to fear and due to the number of institutions involved I suspect it would have been deemed uneconomic re legal cost. Since the father was a methodist the house & contents were in a serious state of disrepair. The father had destroyed a lot of statements yet hidden others so it was never known how much until found recently.
The bailout began 1982 re CCJ & creditors, the individual had tried repeatedly to get the house as guarantor through 1986, investments from golden handshake of 38.5k & wife mother's house sale at 19k plus disposable income of 6k-11k from 1984-1996 were gone. What was left was a 14k debt, huge backlog of maintenance & broken appliances, carpets in holes, most wiring disconnected, leaks, no heating, widow with negative disposable income.
Screaming for money by the individual did not stop. The individual & his wife repeatedly wanted the widows income paid to them so she could claim benefit "to put it back", "you do not have to tell them your income", want the house letting as soon as she is out of it. The individual has received about 6500 in xmas & birthday presents and 2000 from a small inheritance. The individual actually demanded all the inheritance "the accountant and I have decided you should give everything to us". The other son meanwhile had nothing, does not expect an inheritance, nothing has been done with that in mind. He was warned as a child that the father was a fundamental methodist and the individual instead of protecting the father milked him. The individual teaches at a private school, raging down the phone for money "I can not live on that!" despite peppercorn rent on school provided house.
Recently the individual tried getting money again, "she is supposed to have forgotten about that by now so I can have it all again" and demanding all her very small investments and remaining widows occupational pension be paid to him with her claiming benefit to put it back "we know how the system works".
The widow IS protected. She realises there is no-one left to bail her out again. Two lawyers will prevent the individual getting her money to pay off their & their student children debts (because recovery is near impossible, they live in a peppercorn rent private school house).
The son is ALMOST protected. He has every bank account statement, investment statement, original letters & replies re fake signatures & IVA letters, student grant letters, paypal to personal cash receipt, every bill, every document scanned to hard drive and magneto optical disk in three countries, complete detailed spreadsheets of everything, diaries the lot. Employers linked to the school have repeatedly tried blackmailing him to little effect, he simply moves. Vandalism by employers ramming his car is routine.
Almost. The son lacks 1994-1995 father's credit card statements. The accountant used them to launder money because so much had been taken and to hide from creditors & benefits agency. The statement entries are very obvious business suppliers, circa 4300-7200 each year.
Widow letters to Natwest credit card services received no reply, telephone put down. A recent letter got a reply to the local branch who telephoned to say they could only get the last 7 years. NatWest did bring up electronic Current Account statements back to Dec 1992. I thought money laundering rules in 1988 & 1996 required long term retention.
Q - how long do banks keep credit card statements?
I was told they were kept on microfiche in a London basement, perhaps no longer due to the inordinate overhead in keeping them and thus disposed of re "big-bang" 1992?
Moral: families keep money in your own name & set strict limits on bailouts to family members.
****
They will have them somewhere. The banks will have kept copies of everything. However, getting hold of them will be next to impossible. Those who you speak to will not be able to access them. Those who can access them will not be interested.
Reply to
Jake
Sadly I suspect "data grading" is used. Indeed if I were designing a system commercially it would balance regulatory need, ass covering & economics. Remember storing data involves cost in terms of backup, testing, validation & migration to each new technology.
Savings & Current Accounts: - Full statement - 7 years for tax purposes - Final Balance - forever re inheritance to unknown relatives - Closure - final transaction & scanned copy of any closure letter
Credit Cards: - Full statements - 7 years for tax purposes - Final Balance - no record required - Closure - no record required after 7 years
A credit card is not expected to have a positive balance so no need to keep records forever. That is unfortunately a very rational data retention decision by a bank. Thus, sadly, credit card may be the loophole the accountant was banking on.
Would have been nice to have a "closed loop". Until some higher power deems a need and someone suddenly blows dust off something in some basement it is not turning up any time soon. Bit irritated the card services crowd did not put their reply in writing, just got the local branch to telephone.
Reply to
js.b1

I asked somebody who works for a bank. I won't say which, but it is a major high street bank, and I imagine that all the other banks would be similar. She said they have everything on computer going back to 1991, but only the last 7 years is easily accessible. Before that, statements were archived on microfiche, but she said that if they still had them, they would be very hard to get at. But they do keep a lot, she's seen archives that go back to the 1950s...
Reply to
Jake

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