Polish VAT scam

Would they not get people only paying for the drink and refusing to pay for the nibbles on the basis that they were not ordered?

1) I think they tried to cover this possibility. 2) do you know anyone who's managed to avoid the 'credit processing fee' in Sainsbury (or where-ever) by paying with cash?

tim

In message , tim writes

Yes, I do it all the time.

Which is why HMCE don't like it, and are challenging it in court.

If you pay with cash, there's no credit involved, is there? So no 'credit processing fee' involved either.

John,

Just to be clear, and since you don't get a receipt in these places until the cash/cc has been processed through the till, what is the exact process you go through whilst standing at the check-out.

Are you saying that you point out to the operator that there is a credit processing fee included, which s/he should deduct because you're about to hand over the readies?

Must admit this sounds brilliant. And it also rather suggests that the typical wording that I've seen on some till receipts seeking to re-assure the customer that, 'this does not affect the amount you pay', is plain wrong.

Please post more details, I'd love to try this out.

Rgds

__ Richard Buttrey Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK __________________________

But we're talking about the receipt total, which because of the message, usually along the lines, 'this fee does not affect the amount you pay', clearly implies that the fee is included in the transaction total.

So although I agree there is no credit involved in the settlement of the bill when paying by cash, what we're talking about is the value of the commercial transaction between Sainsbury and the customer. This comes before any processing fee could possibly be added, and hence if the customer is paying cash, the value of the goods will be that little bit less, and that's all s/he need pay.

I suspect it's a fairly recent topic and that there's been no legal cases on this, but it does seem to have some legs at the moment and definitely worth trying.

__ Richard Buttrey Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK __________________________

You mean that you pay 2 and half percent less than the amount on the bill, because you pay cash?

You are aware how this scam[1] works?

tim

[1] Yes, I know some of you don't consider this a scam, please let's not discuss this aspect.

"Richard Buttrey" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

As mentioned by someone else IIRC this has already proceeded to a VAT tribunal (win for C&E) to the high court (win for the shops) and is (presumably) awaiting a date for the appeal court.

tim

Just to put the record straight, Sainsbury's don't do this (not yet, anyway). Marks & Spencer's do, though.

In message , Richard Buttrey writes

No, because when you pay by cash there is no 'credit processing fee' mentioned on the receipt. So my goods are 2.56% more expensive.

In message , tim writes

No, I pay the same amount, but my goods are more expensive.

Er, yes.

Ahh, OK.

This seems like grounds for a letter to Sainsbury to find out why they are discriminating against cash customers.

How times have changed from the early days of ccs, when it was illegal for the supplier to charge more for using them. Now it appears legal to charge less for using them. !*"&

Rgds

__ Richard Buttrey Grappenhall, Cheshire, UK __________________________

So you don't somehow refuse to pay the processing fee then.

tim

Oops, you are correct. It's Tesco and M&S that I have receipts from that do this.

My appologies to Mr Sainsbury

tim

In message , tim writes

No, because there isn't one if you pay by cash and my goods are 2.56% more expensive.

Lord Sainsbury?

Unless I'm missing the point here, you're both missing the point. The cost of goods is the same, no matter how you pay it. It's just that if you pay via a credit card, many shops now say that the transaction is handled by another company (a wholly owned subsidiary of the shop, presumably), which charges 2.5% as a handling charge. VAT is charged on the remainder, and so it is the government which is the loser here. (So normally the government would get vat at 17.5% on a £100 item = £17.50, but under this `scam` they'd get 17.5% of 97.50 = £17.06.).

Every little helps!

If the item was a £100 TV you'd pay the same amount whether you paid by cash or credit card, surely?