What are amounts for credit card liability?

That's not my experience. In 35 years of living in Asia I've had my credit card used fraudulently just twice. I have friends in the UK who have had their card details stolen in petrol stations and restaurants there at least as often as that.

After the first year in Asia (China?) you were probably more savvy, took precautions and assessed who you dealt with. On the othe rhand, a UK based buyer of goods from China are not able to take such precautions.

Furthermore it is unlikely you were buying as many mail order goods as people do today. Certainyl not over the Internet which is better than a catalogue at masking the other party.

Quite apart from that, credit card fraud has risen markedly since 35 years ago.

The discussion was about back end processing houses

not skimming in shops

tim

What difference does it make? A dishonest employee could be working in a back-end processing facility just as easily as he could be working in a customer-facing position in a store.

Besides, how do you know where any company carries out it's back-end processing? Just because a company you are buying from appears to be UK based doesn't mean they don't have a lot of their back-office work done somewhere on the other side of the world.

You implied that buying on the Internet from China was no more risky than buying on the Internet from the UK. Anyone can see that's untrue.

We haven't even got on to the regular problem of Chinese goods not as described, being unsafe, counterfeit and the inherent problem of the cost of return postage.

Not to say anything about no protection from UK statutues like the Distance Selling Regulation, Sale of Good Act or whatever applies these days.

Your Asia experience can only make you more detached from the problems faced by Europeans buying Chinese goods over the Internet because you were not here. Where were you in Asia and how many goods did you buy over the Internet in 35 years there?

There's no need for you now to defend what was an incautious claim.

Agreed, in so far you are an importer of good and have the same statutory responsibilities as that of a manufacturer. Rather onerous if you consider CE marking and compliance testing.

I've used PayPal to purchase large items from the China as I feel it gives me greater protection, even if I am expected to pay their fees on top of any agreed price.

The likelihood of them being recruited by a third party

But they are more likely to be targeted by a criminal gang, if only because they are going to have 1000 times the opportunities.

Oh we know :-(

tim

My comments were specifically related to the security of your credit card details and the possibility of them be>The question I ask is what's the likelihood of encountering a dishonest

This is one of the questions you asked. If you want to argue when people give you their opinion on the matter then why ask the question in the first place? I'm surprised you're so dismissive of the views of someone who has real life experience of actually living and working in the region you're talking about.

I've lived in various countries in the region since 1982, and still do. I use credit cards on an almost daily basis and I purchase items from companies on the internet here every few weeks.

As I said, in almost 35 years I've only had fraud occur twice on my card account, and neither of those involved using it on the internet. One was in a restaurant and the other was in a travel services company. I don't think I've suffered a higher rate of fraud here than most people have in the UK.

The credit card skimming in the Far East is the stuff of legend and bar room laments. I first heard of this happening in Hong Kong where it was taking place in restaurants and often organised by syndicates. Getting any redress for Europeans wwho had returned home was immensely frustrating and very often wasn't available at all.

By contrast, I didn't hear of it happening here in the UK until many years later and widespread organised syndicates have escaped my attention.

BTW your mention of "straw man" brings me close to declaring Godwin! If I may say so, I think you must be something of a nutcase if you believe stoeln credit card details are just as likely to happen with purchases from UK vendors as with purchases from Chinese vendors. It doesn't need endless debate to see that. It's self-evident.

I have the impression that Chris mad e awild assettion and now feel obliged to defend it until the death. It was ever thus on Usenet.

Put your pointless debate shields up!

It's not a wild assertion, it comes from real life personal experience from someone who actually lives in the region. 14 years in Hong Kong/China, 2 years in Thailand, a year in Korea and 17 years in the Philippines and I've had my card skimmed exactly twice in all that time.

You continue to sit the other side of the world and imagine whatever you like. I'm just telling you what things are actually like in reality here. What possible motivation would I have for wasting my own and other people's time coming here and making up a load of nonsense? If I knew things were as bad as you believe I would have been the first to have confirmed it.

Chris

The thing is that most do not give credit card details to people in china, with Ebay, they use pay pal.

You mentioned "straw man" and so I am now bringing back the discussion to the original topic which was to do with a person in the UK purchasing from the Far East.

It seems to me your 35 years of sojourns abroad have resulted in you being absent from the UK for so long that you don't really have any first hand experience of these matters.

I, in the UK, wouldn't reveal my credit card details to an unknown someone in China unless it was absolutely necessary. You may differ but you're not in the UK anyway.