Any idea on future plans for RMS?

Has Microsoft made any publicly available announcements regarding the future of RMS?

What I am interested in is what is the timeline for a new version of this software (if any?) and what are the planned enhancements?

Specifically what I am looking for is any indication of if MS plans to fix the broken (and VERY buggy) implementation of custom hooks. Right now custom hooks are mostly useless for all but the most basic scenarios.

Does anyone have any insight? Right now, we simply cannot get our custom software to work with RMS so we are forced to use solutions from other parties. This really sucks because we were hoping to advertise our solution as a complete end-to-end microsoft solution, but we simply cannot do that right now.

As it stands, it seems to reason that fixing RMS is a low priority for MS given the lack of communication from MS.

Am I wrong?

Anyone care to chime in?

Reply to
Larry Andersen
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They're pretty tight lipped about it. It's been over 2 years since RMS v1.2 was released, and POS v1.0 came out recently, so I'm hoping that they will move the new interface over to RMS and then release RMS v2.0.

Any examples? I haven't run across any bugs with the hooks themselves, just bugs with QSRules.

Agreed.

I hope not.

Reply to
Jason Hunt

The most glaring bugs regarding hooks are specifically:

  1. AddItem hook bugs. (screen does not refresh correctly if line items are added/changed inside the hook) THIS IS A HUGE BUG FOR US and makes RMS mostly useless.

  1. Lack of a hook when a transaction entry changes. AddItem hook works fine for adding an item, but we need an intelligent way to detect when an entry changes (specifically to the quantity)

  2. Lack of a hook to determine when a transaction entry is removed.

  1. The refresh hook gets called several times (not consitently I might add) when items are added/changed. There should be some sort of "Calculate" hook that is called once each time the order is recalculated regardless of screen refresh status

With the above bugs, it is almost impossible to create discount or loyalty programs that work consistently or with 100% accuracy.

Reply to
Larry Andersen

Larry,

I was just looking a PowerPoint slide somewhere on the M$ site last week about RMS & POS timelines.

1.3 has been announced for this quarter. M$ claims for more HQ fixes & updates. Not much else announced.

1.4 has been announced for 4Q of 2006 without any fixes mentioned

If you look at the directory structure of M$ POS, is says RMS 2.0

Reply to
Jeff

Yes, you are right, not all of the items I have listed are bugs, but half of them are (#1 and #4). And they are pretty big bugs at that. And in my opinion, #1 is pretty close to a showstopper for a good chunk of the partner network for all but the most basic customization scenarios.

I'm not trying to bash MS. I was an employee for 4 1/2 years in the MBS division after all (the divison responsible for RMS btw). My only complaint concerns their lack of truly supporting their customers with fixes such as these. Believe me, 90% of the time, the standard response from MS is "well fix it in the next version" without truly understanding the pain that the current version is causing to customers.

"Glenn Adams [MVP - Retail Mgmt]" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...

Reply to
Larry Andersen

I agree that a Calculate hook would make customization development a lot easier. You may have to re-think your approach on your project to make it fit around the limitations. It sounds like you're trying to develop a discount system which is based on combonations of items. Probably the only way to do it is either a) create a customized item selection screen which runs on InitializeTransaction and then does QSRules.Transaction.AddItem after the list of items is done being selected within your application, or b) possibly create a carefully crafted RefreshDisplay hook that checks for applicable matches and modifies the items as necessary. Option A can be a lot of work, but it's feasible; I've done it with two different customizations, and it's a lot of work. Option B can be a bad idea on slower systems or if you're trying to make a customization that can scale a large and complex arrays of discount schemes.

You can easily create a loyalty points add-in using the PrintReceipt hook. The latest version of the customization guide shows you how to create a loyalty system this way. There are also other resellers who have developed and are selling loyalty points systems; we have our own customers using it and they haven't had any issues with it.

Reply to
Jason Hunt

Callin all of those "Bugs" seems a bit extreme to me. Just because you don't agree with design decisions doesn't make them bugs; however, I agree that it would be really nice to have hooks to more events. I suspect things will get worse before they get better, but we'll have to wait & see what turns up in the next major release.

Consider using a Begin Tender hook to examine all of the Transaction Entires after they have been added or modified.

Reply to
Glenn Adams [MVP - Retail Mgmt]

I completely agree with Larry about "the PAIN", as I've been a suffering customer.

I wasn't aware that this software is not made "ready-to-use" by and end users. I bought a Zebra printer for about 300 a year ago, and they are spending more time than MS helping me with technical problem trying to print tags. MS had already charged some 230 for annual support and 65 for incident support.

No problem has been resolved by MS!....

Can I resell the software since I can't return it?.....

"Larry Andersen" wrote:

Reply to
kay

Are you sure this practice is legal? It's like buying a house and the builder tells you that he's selling you a lisence to live there. You either move and abandon or stay because you cannot sell untill you died!....

Kay

Reply to
kay

Unfortunately there will never be any POS, Accounting or other business-related software that is "ready to use" out of the box; it all requires configuration. This isn't like installing Windows or Office. The person who is implementing RMS has to understand how the software works and be able to make it adapt to your workflow, or determine the best to adapt your workflow to fit with it. I can't think of one customer who hasn't had to change some part of their procedures in order to use RMS; that's the way it is when you computerize your business.

There are some business models that RMS does not fit with. It is the job of the reseller to determine if RMS is suitable or not, and to inform you of any possible complications.

Annual support is recommended. As for the incident, if installation of the Zebra printer was included with your price of the system, then you'll have to ask the reseller why they're not covering this.

No, not unless you sell the business that the software is registered to.

Reply to
Jason Hunt

Kay and others,

Kay, two questions. First, did you look to see if the printer was on the approved hardware list before you purchased the printer? Second, did you go back the RMS reseller and tell him to fix the printer issue or take it back? Or did you try to save a buck and just buy something off the Internet?

A lot of people think that RMS should be just like M$ Word or Excel or a toaster. Its NOT and never will be!! That's why you should buy the products from a Certified RMS reseller. Make sure to get referrals and call or go see them. We spend a lot of time and money to become trained resellers. Don't forget that we have to pay for M$ support too! If the resellers are worth their salt, they should already know what works and what doesn't.

But on the other side, RMS is not the end all for POS software and doesn't work in some situations. RMS is a good base package, but may require some customization or add-ons for your store. Again a good RMS reseller, will come out and evaluate your situation and see if it works for you. But you must be able to tell the person exactly what is required for your business.

Understand though that we have to make a profit too, like yourselves. Just because they were in your store for an hour, which you may or may not pay for, they may spend 2-5 hours determining the soft and hardware requirements for your store. Again, be prepared to pay for their time.

Another issue is training, sure you can fumble around and try to learn it yourself. Why not spend a little more for training so that you aren't frustrated with the program. Just look at the number of basic questions here that are repeated every couple of weeks here on this newsgroup. Most are already answered in the Help files. When you purchased RMS, you should have purchased the Standard A plan for maintenance and support. Have many of you sat through the on-line training that you paid for? You get 2 licenses for online RMS training on the CustomerSource website.

Unfortunately there are the bad apples out their that pass their tests, create a website, sell the product for $10 over cost and then "Make it up in volume". Of course, they last about a year.

Here's a test. Get your most recent yellow pages, turn to the computer dealers pages and at random, call 10 of them. At least 5 will be out of business.

Reply to
Jeff

Kay,

You agreed to the EULA when you installed the program. That was part of the agreement. You have to understand that 99.999% of software is licensed, you don't own it. You pay for the license to use it.

Reply to
Jeff

Jeff,

I bought the Zebra printer and used it with ICE software for a few years. But ICE was a little slow once the database started to build up. I was anxious to switch, trusting MS a little too much and didn't test a trial version, only watched a demonstration.

I won't go into the lengthy process of this "partnership" dealing with this "piece of art" system. As a buyer and business person, it's natural I tried to cut cost. Learning bout the system with $5K is better than learning about it with $30K. In the end, MSRMS is what it is, new, dynamic, fast and utterly flawed.

As for the Zebra, there is one template already designed for the 2X4 label. I already made it work and got it to print. The problem is that I don't know how to rewrite the code using EPL to print another size. Avery labels are too expensive for my business and requires double work because I still have to put them on the hang tags.

Curiously, it already cost me the annual fee and the $65 incident fee, and there is still no solution. What do you think should cost for a partner to get this to work?

I actually don't know anything about the 2 licenses for online training that came with it. I got no information except for 2 links, one to this site and the other to customer source, but the information was so overwhelming and clustered, mostly about how to pay for more services. I still don't know what the support is with that annual fee except for the articles on the site, which seemed to show up only recently.

I noticed that Customer Source just posted the way to generate gift receipt, very recently. I will try that. This is a basic feature that took two years to come out?....I don't understand how other retailers, who bought when the software first came out, could stand this!....You don't need a third vendor to customize this very basic function. Every retailer needs it!...With all due respect, I prefer to send any extra money I can save to Africa or New Orleans!....

Mr. Bill Gates has been pouring his money into Africa anyway. Perhaps I should just suffer a little hypocrisy to help him out in this highly moral endeavor!

As for license fee, a matter of principle, if you can transfer a car, a lease, a property ownership, why not a license when you no longer use it?...

"Jeff" wrote:

Reply to
kay

Kay,

Actually RMS is about 4-5 years old. M$ purchased the company (SMS) that had placed 1st in the M$ sponsored RAD awards two years running. SMS' older product, QuickSell 2000, the base for this product, is even older.

RMS has lots of minor flaws, strangeness and sometimes baffling logic, but this issue isn't even close to any of them. I'm really curious that you call RMS flawed. Why, because you can't print a label from an unsupported, label printer that you didn't test before purchasing? Why don't you call Zebra and tell them their printer is flawed because they didn't create a label to your specs that works with every POS program? While you're at it, ask them why did they create a printer that only works with the printer's special, built-in EPL language. Have you asked _them_ to create the label for you? Have you tried finding a newsgroup that talks about using and programming the Zebra printer?

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Having someone create a label for you, depending on your needs and if the programmer is familiar with EPL and RMS, 1/2 to 1 hour of time, max. Here are the 2 KB articles they would need;
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(this describes how to create & edit the Zebra label) and
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(this gives the list of variables available to print on the label) They would also need to have a Zebra printer to test on. I don't know what the $65 fee was about, but if you contact M$ support they will charge you. By paying the annual fee, it gives you discounts for their support, described in the link below.

The annual fee gives you access the CustomerSource website, that includes this ng, 2 user training sessions, access to M$ customized reports and receipt templates, discounts on M$ technical support, and most importantly, it gives you all updates to the program for the year. You can read about it here.

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and also read the .PDF file that linked on the right side in the download section. The gift receipt was posted in March of 2004, (almost 2 years ago) a month after that page was created. It was available before, it was just hard to find until they organized that section better. 4th from bottom;
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You OWN a car or property, you can transfer it to anyone you want. A license to use is NOT ownership!

Reply to
Jeff

Why did you spend anything at all if you weren't sure what you wanted or what the software could do? The RMS demo CD works for 45 days I think. You could have tried everything you are complaining about now without spending a dime.

We bought the ecourse and paid for training and installation. That got us up and running pretty quick. RMS doesn't do everything we want it to yet, but it runs circles around our old POS sofware.

We don't have a Zebra printer so I can't help you much there. What about installing the Windows driver for the printer and designing the label in Label Designer? If you can't get that to work and aren't willing to pay someone who can, buy another printer and move on.

Pard> Jeff,

Reply to
Mark

Mark,

Your bus> Why did you spend anything at all if you weren't sure what you wanted or what

Reply to
kay

Jeff,

thanks for the links. I'll try to find time to read more of them.

I didn't know the RMS has been that old.

I was told the zebra printer would work. As mentioned, the Zebra label was part of the template list preset in the RMS, but it's only set for a 4X2 label. I am in contact with Zebra, will see how much they can help......

When I first posted my questions here, at least two people, who were seemingly consultants/resellers assured me that the Zebra worked for others. I'm the only one who couldn't get it right.

I don't understand why you said the Zebra is unsupported.

I also don't understand why several of you keep accusing me of not wanting to pay.

My question is, how much will it cost to get this to work?...

Technical support advised that they are only familiar with ZPL and not EPL. Zebra had to refer me to someone who knows both ZPL and EPL to work on a translation.....

SO, WILL IT WORK OR NOT IF I AM WILLING TO PAY YOU WHATEVER PRICE YOU ASK ON TOP OF THE LICENSE FEE AND THE MS TECH SUPPORT?.....

I told you that it is not about buying a new printer. It is about the cost of labels and the double work I have to do to make hang tags. I need to print hundreds of tags each week. There aren't that many hang tag options available out there!.....

Hang tags that come on a page are very expensive, and I have to order them from Canada. There isn't an American vendor I could find.

I am not here to vent. I want to find solutions. Isn't that better for everyone, especially those who are evaluating this software?

I have family members, friends and neighbors in retail. They're waiting for me to tell them how this system work. Imagine my recomendation at the moment!....

It is really to your benefit to be more professional about this. Most unhappy customers dont spend this much time.

As a person who was trained in Computer programming in college, though I am not working in this field, I personally like to try to make it work before moving on.

How do you assume that my time is cheaper than yours and that I am not pay> Kay,

Reply to
kay

Kay,

You said earlier that you used ICE. Did the same hang tag that you want to use now, print properly in ICE? If you still have access ICE, the hang tag label file should still be there. Post it here on the ng and we (the ng collectively) can see if we can change it for RMS.

You say you buy the hang tag from a Canadian outfit, can you the give us part number and a website so we can get the dimensions of the label?

The printer will work, but as you have found, RMS will not print every label size available for Zebra without customization. You or someone else must create the label file for the specific label that you want. A sample Zebra label file was included with RMS to use as a template for you or someone else to modify, in addition to the KB articles I sent links to you earlier.

Reply to
Jeff

Boy oh boy what a cluster. Hook up with a good partner near you Kay. The money you spend on training and what not will pay you back down the road in the fact you will have more knowledge faster and be happier with the system. Your learning curve will accelerate and so will your skill and ability to use the system as intended to run your store. BTW, I had never seen EPL or a Zebra (except in a Zoo), and I had one working and printing 3 new labels I created in less than and hour. But I have been in POS sales/support 15 long years...so to me it was like riding a new kind of bike, a bit different, but still a bike all the same.

And Larry, I don't know what your even talking about. I have seen many add-on loyalty programs, just because the system does not work like "you" want it to, does not mean it won't work for anyone else. You really don't point to any "bug" that prevents a normal customer from using the system to ring up sales, only things you can't "modify" to your satisfaction. The system was obviously not written to your specifications.

The software has a demo version as many mention. If you failed to try that first then whom is to blame?

Shame on the people that sell this to un-assuming customers with out selling training. Shame on those who sell this software and tell end users they can do it all by themselves (most can not!).

Mostly, best of luck to you guys. Get a good partner, let them train you, pay them for their time and happy reselling!

m t

Reply to
Masta T

Software licenses are just that: a license. A non-transferrable license. All software is like that, unless you purchase the complete rights to the source code and copyright.

You cannot compare software to any a house, because you do not own the software. You only own a license to run the software.

Software is intangible, which makes it difficult to compare to concrete things such a house.

Reply to
Jason Hunt

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