Quicken Backup (Part 2)

Pointing out proper etiquette for newsgroups is hardly bullying.

Posting under a nym means I'm a whole lot more concerned about security issues than you seem to be, you'll find a very large percent of experienced Usenet users will not use their real name or email address.

Reply to
XS11E
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No problem. You've made your point and I've made mine. If others have read your comments and modified their newsreaders and practices to more closely conform to proper NG etiquette then I applaud your effort.

I've listened to you and understand you completely, but I'm sticking to my position of slightly less than 100% compliance.

So you have nothing more to say to me, right?... Unless you wish to bully me.

To me it comes across as rude, especially when you're preaching. I understand that you've made a *compromise* between security and more personal interaction and I accept that. I expect you to accept that I am making a compromise between 100% compliance with NG etiquette and the clarity of my responses, given that I have a newsreader that mangles my responses to some HTML posts if I convert them to plain text. And I'm not going to switch newsreaders just to please you and a few other intolerant fundamentalists.

Reply to
Jerry Boyle

After reading Ken Becker's interesting post about UNIX, DOS and Windows security models, I really felt that I should come back and correct my above mistake.

Where I wrote C:\Documents\... I really meant to say the Vista "Documents" folder for his user account. This is the equivalent of the XP "My Documents" folder.

When Don reported via email that this didn't work it puzzled me. By the time I realized my mistake Don's problem had been corrected.

I think Ken is absolutely correct. Under the evolving Windows security model your user files and folders belong under your own "Documents" or "My Documents" folder.

I know how they do file sharing under UNIX but I'm not sure what direction they're going in for Windows. I don't think the Shared Documents folder approach is the answer.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Boyle

EXACTLY! Though I would add postings to newsgroups too. You don't like the way I post. Nothing saying you need to read it.

People such as XS11E (AKA id10t :-) ) care little about being tolerant. They want everybody to operate like they do and will attempt to beat into submission anybody who doesn't conform. They are always perplexed when they try to convert me. It's quite funny actually.

No a good solution would be to simply get better news reading software such that such posting are rendered to the liking of the user. So if I post in HTML but you prefer ASCII then you are simply shown ASCII. Many applications already do this! For example, Thunberbird does it. Also, as I point out to those stuck in the 60's, nothing but a command line program will do for me, when I was on SuSE 9.x I believe and I would use less to display the contents of an HTML file it would render the HTML in an ASCII form! It also allowed me to append a ":" to the end of the file name if I wanted to see it in raw format. Gee, teaching less new tricks! See it can be done. So then why can't it also be done for rn(1), trn(1), et. al.? If it were all of these id10t users would stop complaining because they really don't care about the excuses they give for HTML being bad like bandwidth, etc. They just care because it looks ugly to them. Well brother, if you're using an ASCII based reader you should be used to ugly by now!

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

--snippage

Well, I'll agree with rambling, a bit off, and all that. But, maybe to say it more directly:

  1. In a rash attempt to improve Windows security, Vista is moving closer to something like a Unix/Linux security model.
  2. The application developers, like Intuit/Quicken, are moving towards that model. They'd like to be there, but they make mistakes.
  3. I'm pretty durn sure that the new security model should discourage (well, should prohibit, but root is root) opening up random directories all over the hard drive. Users who do _that_ on their own are violating the (unwritten) new security rules - and that's where Don, the original poster, ran into trouble.

If Microsoft was smart they'd put this on a plastic-coated 8x11 1/2" piece of paper with "put your data _here_, not _there!", with a list of Best Practices on the back. But that means educating Joe Six Pack... so they're not going to do it.

Oh, well.

K. Becker

Reply to
Ken and Jane Becker

They should have just moved to the Unix security model. But instead they made it much more complex - so much so that everybody's confused....

No, more like they are incompetent. It really doesn't take much to "do it right" except, of course, to possibly make it hard for customers who don't understand the issues to start with. Faced with possibly losing customers the acquiesce and the problem continues... Sorta like what Microsoft is doing...

Microsoft should have created a sandbox, the NT sandbox, where, when playing in that it operates like 95/98/NT/whatever... And then we have the XP or perhaps Vista model. Then MS should have said "Here's how you do it securely. You have until the next release of Windows to get with the program otherwise you will cease to work on the next version of Windows". Unfortunately MS doesn't have that sort of balls.

Data is only one small piece of the puzzle. Remember DLL hell? DLLs are not Joe Six Pack's data. They are libraries that everybody and their brother was sticking into the C:\Windows directory! And they shouldn't have been.

Also, Microsoft still need to understand what a users home directory is supposed to be. And C:\Documents and Settings\ is *not* the place to be putting that! Nor is C:\Documents. This docucentric model is crap. I have much more than documents on my computer. I have images and music and programs and scrips and data files and databases and config files, etc., etc. Documents?!? That's the least of my files!

And 3rd party applications need to understand what a home directory is and they need to be installable in relative locations. This registry stuff is for the birds! Way too much stuff is placed into this monstrosity of a database that is always dirty and wasteful, hidden, not easily editable and way too misunderstood!

Yes oh well. My next computer will be an Ubuntu laptop... And I'd move to GNU Cash if it would to online stuff more like Quicken.

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as rude and I'm not preaching, Usenet is getting very crowded with newer posters who have not familiarized themselves with proper netiquette and I was only offering instruction. In some other groups any violation of netiquette would result in a severe flaming.

That surprises me, I don't use Windows Mail but I didn't know it had problems with converting HTML to plain text. Have you asked about the problem? There may be a fix or way to set it so it does not mangle text, Microsoft has a newsgroup for Windows Mail, the server would be msnews.microsoft.com and the group would be microsoft.public.mail.misc

It might be worth your while to check it out.

So you think preaching good manners make me an "intolerant fundamentalist"? I sincerely hope you never tried that on your parents!

Reply to
XS11E

Oops, correction, should be microsoft.public.windows.vista.mail

Reply to
XS11E

Sure you are. You are telling others what you think they should be doing based on your "gospel". You're also assuming others are not doing it your way because they are ignorant like most religious idiots do instead of considering the possibility that others have considered your essentially religious standpoint and have rejected it. That's preaching Mr. Coward.

First off I'm anything but new. So your assumption is way off base. Secondly your not offering merely instruction. If you were then when I responded with "Thanks but no thanks" or "I'm sorry but I disagree" you would have simply said "Oh. OK". But you're not saying that. You're attempting to bully me into your point of view and you will fail miserably. This is why Jerry was saying you were bullying or being rude because you are!

As it obviously does here, Mr. Flamer. So what! I suspect that if I entered a church and say God is Imaginary I would likewise be "flamed" and shown the way or the door. Does this mean I must therefore become religious because a bunch or religious nuts harbor delusions of mythical beings? I think not!

Hmmm... Just before you were "offering instruction" and now you admit to preaching. Freudian slip, Mr. Freud?

You sir are not my parents!!! I'm a full grown adult, probably older than you, and am not in need of your instruction of your religious opinions regarding how I should post. You don't like how I post then nobody's forcing you to read what I post. I remind you that unlike you, I am not asking you to post my way, Mr. Intolerant.

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

I think the proper fix for this issue, if indeed one is needed, is technical. If only plain text is acceptable in a set of NGs, then news servers need the ability to recognize this fact and refuse to distribute HTML for such NGs. No a good solution would be to simply get better news reading software such that such posting are rendered to the liking of the user. So if I post in HTML but you prefer ASCII then you are simply shown ASCII. Many applications already do this! For example, Thunberbird does it. Also, as I point out to those stuck in the 60's, nothing but a command line program will do for me, when I was on SuSE 9.x I believe and I would use less to display the contents of an HTML file it would render the HTML in an ASCII form! It also allowed me to append a ":" to the end of the file name if I wanted to see it in raw format. Gee, teaching less new tricks! See it can be done. So then why can't it also be done for rn(1), trn(1), et. al.? If it were all of these id10t users would stop complaining because they really don't care about the excuses they give for HTML being bad like bandwidth, etc. They just care because it looks ugly to them. Well brother, if you're using an ASCII based reader you should be used to ugly by now!

I think I was a little too subtle about my purpose in making the above comments. I was trying to pawn XS11E off on the news committee so s/he would go away and leave us alone.

Thanks for stepping in with your last batch of comments, Andrew. I was getting really frustrated and exhausted trying to patiently reason with a mouth with no ears, an opinion with no brain, and a pathologically obsessive concern for courtesy with absolute total lack of awareness of his/her own rudeness and pushiness.

In my over 20 years on USENET, XS11E is the most annoying person I have ever encountered.

Jerry

Reply to
Jerry Boyle

There is no "news committee" - this is Usenet - and even if there was XS11E wouldn't go away anyway.

It's typical of these sorts of people. I hit them all the time because I recognize their rudeness and refuse to yield or be bullied by them.

Gee, such a comment is usually hurled at me! I'll have to work harder! ;-)

(Note such comments are hurled at me by people like XS11E - if I could call such a code a person - in their attempts at bullying me. Have I been losing my edge or are there just more intelligent people such as yourself entering the room. I must ponder this all day today...).

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

Andrew is killfiled, of couse, but he apparently doesn't realize it?

You weren't reasoning, you were trying to justify your ignorance, rudeness and lack of respect for others. In other words, you were trying to defend the indefensible. You seem to feel the best way to do so is to insult others.

Your amazing rudness has no limits, does it?

It's hard to imagine people as boorish as you and Andrew but you've proven such do exist.

Reply to
XS11E

-- Ridiculous amounts of snippage

Andy,

There's not a thing in your response that I don't fully agree with. And, if GNU Cash did all that Quicken did, or at least close, I'd be out of Quicken in a flash.

Have a good one.

Ken Becker

Reply to
Ken and Jane Becker

Reply to
Jerry Boyle

I was not told so why would I "realize it". Then again many people say they are kill filing and then don't. Of course kill filing would be in line with your already displayed cowardice!

As opposed to your ignorance, rudeness and lack of respect for others?

Who's trying the defend the indefensible? People who will actually debate you on the topic or people who hide behind a killfile thereby admitting they have no defense?

Ah, idiot, he was saying that you were rude!

Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

Actually recently GNUCash announced support for Windows. Well that would be interesting to run GNUCash side by side with Quicken (though technically I could have run GNUCash from my Linux server) so I looked into it again. I was particularly interested in whether or not is supported online bill payment and transaction download. It said it supported QFX (I think) but all I really could find was that it imported QIF files. Well first off, that's old, old, old, and not even supported anymore I believe. Secondly it's a pain in the butt making online transaction download many more steps than it should be. Thirdly, how exactly do you pay bills with QIF files?

So the verdict is, unfortunately, still not ready for prime time.

I thought of contributing to the cause and writing code for this but it's much more than just code - it's needing to get agreements with the major players to support things.

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

Please, Andrew, I beg of you, don't even think about it.

I have only one vote. In the consensus poll I'm pretty sure you're still the king. Heaven help us all should you ever decide to unleash the awesome power of your majestic wrath :-)

Long live the king!!!

Jerry

[This plain-text response is brought to you in honor of XS11E]
Reply to
Jerry Boyle

That's right!

Bow to your king!!!

Awe now you went and done honored another! Shame on you!!!

Reply to
Andrew DeFaria

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