1. Home
  2. UK Finance Discussions
  3. chip and pin and sigs

chip and pin and sigs

Does anyone have any thoughts on the following. I was in a Sainsbury's store and paid for a purchase with my debit card. The cashier took my card from me and parked it in the swipe slot, which I'll come back to in a moment.

I entered my PIN which was accepted (PIN OK), followed by the message to remove the card. The cashier removed the card but not before the till had also printed out a signature receipt, ie of the old swipe and sig era. She handed this to me to sign. It was not a cashback initial or anything but a proper signature dotted line job. There was no cashback on the transaction.

I asked her why it was requesting my signature when I had entered my PIN and she replied that she didn't know. After weighing up the situation for a moment I signed and finished up the transaction. I couldn't see any risks with that particular incident and the card was in my sight all along. However I did decide to follow up and understand better the possible reasons for this happening and any possible ramifications.

I don't know whether I should have flat-out refused and stood my ground, but the end result would no doubt have been leaving without any shopping. On the other hand I had successfully entered my PIN and see no reason to also require the signature. I don't know whether Sainsburys themselves should be concerned by the incident.

When I checked with my bank, they'd "not heard of that happening before", nor could I see anything about it on the chipandpin site. However I'm sure it's not advised to submit both PIN and sig.

Returning to the swipe and park in Sainsburys, Tesco and other random retailers, I wish they all adopted a consistent policy so that consumers could be sure of the correct expectations to avoid skimming and fraud. Consumers are having this kind of message drummed into them but then the retailers let the side down by introducing confusion and risk which cannot be immediately assessed.

Reply to
Chris Lawrence
Loading thread data ...

Pin plus sig is still common in parts of main-land Europe.

IMHO, you have to understand the jobsworth's mentality. They just want something in the box.

So just scribble a fictional name - the sig is rarely, if ever, checked.

Whenever I get home deliveries, I always sign "unchecked" instead of my name. No-one notices, and it covers me (I hope...!) if I find damage / shortages when unpacking later.

In the "old days" of paying by cheque, I was often asked to add name (despite it being pre-printed!) & address on reverse of cheques, as well as card number. Again, I wrote total fiction - no-one was any the wiser.

Reply to
Martin

You say the cashier 'took my card', so let's assume you were not allowed to put the card end into the PIN pad yourself. (I suspect that it's probably a wrong assumption, though.)

IMO you should not be expected to enter your PIN if your card has been swiped, or the cashier's actions leave the possibility open that it has been swiped. That includes use of a swipe-and-park device.

Since it was potentially swiped, you should have insisted on signing only.

As for your more general question, I don't know, but I too would be similarly bothered about it. I mean we would never have signed two slips for one transaction pre-C&P, would we?

This illustrates aptly the disadvantage that the cardholder is put at by the C&P system.

Reply to
Clifford Frisby

We'vew had a chip and pin card not even need the pin. Which is fine when it's us using the card but potentially someone could have great fun doing it! What's the procedure for saying "cancel that transaction I want to use chip and pin"? Or should we dispute any transaction that we're allowed to make without pin?

Reply to
mogga

At 02:35:56 on 18/01/2008, Chris Lawrence delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Whether to use PIN or signature (or both, or neither) is a decision taken jointly by the card (on behalf of the card issuer) and terminal (on behalf of the merchant's acquirer). Whilst it is extremely rare for both to be requested for regular transactions, it is allowed under the specification.

However, it's more likely that what you experienced was a failure of the PINpad or its comms and so the system fell back to signature.

Reply to
Alex

Pity the cardholder who does not know whether he has authorised two distinct transactions.

And yet, OP says the PIN pad said PIN was OK. At a stretch that could be consistent with "We didn't actually present your PIN to the card, so your PIN is not a problem for us", but it's not what most people would infer.

Reply to
Clifford Frisby

At 10:16:27 on 18/01/2008, Clifford Frisby delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Indeed. It's not difficult to stick a message on the POS screen so the operator can tell the customer there's been a problem.

No, it's not. The PINpad only knows the PIN's correct because the card confirms it. So we know the PIN made it to the card and the card responded.

However - we do not know whether the PINpad was able to convey that to the rest of the system.

Reply to
Alex

I've never been asked for both, but when I was in New Zealand recently I was frequently asked to sign instead of using a PIN despite it being a Chip&Pin card.

Reply to
Roger Mills

Yep, There is no point complaining to the checkout numpty, if she want's to keep her job there is likely to be nothing she can do to let you take your goods without signing.

tim

Reply to
tim (not at home)

BeanSmart website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.