Chip & pin credit cards

"James" wrote

Ah, but they *do* have the "legal right" to refuse you credit. You *don't* have a *right* to have a credit card with whomever you choose...

Reply to
Tim
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The new disability discrimination law probably makes it illegal for the banks not to offer Chip & Signature.

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JB

Reply to
JB

Indeed.

If you go into a NZ shop, the person behind the till will, if unsure, ask if your card is a credit card or an eftpos card. For a credit card payment, they sometimes ask for a signature, for an eftpos payment they ask for a PIN. For any foreign cards, they will usually ask for a signature. This is the NZ shopkeepers point of view.

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Reply to
DP

Without a hint of irony, "DP" astounded uk.finance on 21 Apr

2004 by announcing:

So? The UK shopkeeper's point of view is that they're all PDQ machines, originally a brand name of Barclays. Doesn't make it correct, does it?

Reply to
Alex

With a small amount of effort most people could easily learn dozens. Without even special effort to learn them I can recall six or seven.

Thom

Reply to
Thom

Leaving aside the chip and pin issue. A small amount of effort should allow you to remember any 4 digit number. You need to associate the numbers in the PIN with something meaningful to you.

For example, 4590 (pseudo-randomly generated by my calculator). I associate the number 45 with colt 45 - so I can imagine a colt 45. 90 is twice 45 so I can imagine a "multiply by 2" sign next to it. If I rehearse it a few times and test myself I should remember it.

Lots of other methods exist - including mnemonics such as the "one is a bun, two is a shoe ..." rhyme that associates images with numbers.

If that isn't to your taste you can write down your number without making it easy to find - don't write down all four digits together (for example).

Thom

Reply to
Thom

How else does language evolve, but by the way it is used? You surely cannot say that a computer cannot be a PC if it is shared, for example.

Down under, an eftpos machine is understood by every shopper and shopkeeper alike to be the machine that swipes your card and takes your PIN.

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Reply to
DP

Not when your offered an opt out.

As Chip and Signature cards ARE an alternative to Chip & PIN cards will card issuers be saying you can't use a Chip & Signature card where you see that cards logo displayed? Will stores be turning away customer who insert a Chpped card that says Verify by Signature rather than enter PIN? I think not.

As for terms & conditions - on my original application for my credit cards I deliberatley left the box unticked which asked if I required a PIN or not. The reason of having a PIN with a credit card was to enable one to withdraw cash at ATM's.

My reasons for decling a PIN then and now are:

  1. I have no wish to use my credit card at an ATM - it's an expensive way of obtaining cash.
  2. As I can't obtain hard cash with a credit card, neither can a crook.
  3. The face value of my credit card is more than seven times that of my debit card. A credit card complete with PIN will become a 'must have item,' for crooks. Why? Becasue they can use a PIN with a credit card to get hard cash or buy goods up to the value of the card in any Chip & PIN compliant store without ever being challenged.
  4. The new type Chip & PIN card retains a magstrip and beacuse of this these cards are probably still susecptible to cloning. Could a new type Chip and PIN credit card be cloned and used with a PIN to obtain cash at a non-compliant cash machine at home or overseas? I'd hate to be accused of being negligent with my PIN.
  5. Liability Shift. By accepting a PIN you are accepting responsiblity for that PIN. The original posting on this group highlights this. If you haven't got a PIN with your card then you can't be negligent with it. You wont have £3600 pounds hanging over your head. Stick with a signature with your credit card, at least the most you can be held liable for is £50. As for debit cards IMHO, their use to obtain cash should be restricted to ATMs with PINs or cash back in shops on the strength of a signature. ATMs should be covered by CCTV to prevent ATM crime and resolve disputed transactions, this is already practised in the Middle East.
  6. I can remember my debit card (changing shortly to a card that can only be used at ATMs and doubles as a cheque guarantee card),PIN with ease. I absolutely refuse, in the interest of personal security, to change all my cards to the same PIN. The original posting highlights the drawbacks by doing this.

Ask yourself one question if you were the victim of card fraud, would you rather have it been card fraud where your PIN was used or your signature forged?

I do welcome Chips on cards for two reasons:

  1. They will deter counterfeit as long as ALL point of sale terminals and ATMs world-wide are Chip compliant.
  2. Blocks on stolen or lost cards should be in the majority of cases but not all in near real time.

James.

Reply to
James

Without a hint of irony, "DP" astounded uk.finance on 23 Apr 2004 by announcing:

And the name of this group is?

Reply to
Alex

"James" wrote

Do you have any evidence that the 50 limit will *not* apply to Chip-n-PIN transactions? Or is this just your *supposition*??

Reply to
Tim

They do not have the right to discriminate against disabled customers. Under the Disability Discrimination Act both the card issuer and the merchant have to make reasonable accommodation for disabled customers. In this case it is clear that the card issuer is happy to provide credit, so refusal of credit is not even an issue.

Steve

Reply to
Steve

uk.finance - and guess what? We don't finance the UK! But the group's name is that widely used outside its own sphere.

Reply to
DP

Without a hint of irony, "DP" astounded uk.finance on 25 Apr 2004 by announcing:

And the charter of uk.finance is?

Reply to
Alex

Dunno. Is it perchance not to use words like eftpos?

Reply to
DP

Without a hint of irony, "DP" astounded uk.finance on 26 Apr 2004 by announcing:

Why not look it up and then try and convince me that the evolution of the Australian branch of the English language has any bearing on the meaning of EFTPOS in this newsgroup.

Reply to
Alex

I have better things to do than try to convince you of anything, Alex.

Reply to
DP

Alex said on 22.04.04:

Actually, I recently received an australien debit card which had been swallowed by a branch's ATM. One of the logos on the back did in fact read "eftpos", so it does appear to be the actual name of a payment scheme down under!

Chris

Reply to
Christian Bartsch

Without a hint of irony, snipped-for-privacy@gmx.de (Christian Bartsch) astounded uk.finance on 29 Apr 2004 by announcing:

And as I have previously pointed out, "down under" does not apply to this group. In the context of this group, the term "eftpos" applies to any credit or debit card system - EMV or otherwise.

Reply to
Alex

In message , Christian Bartsch writes

Its the card services division of ANZ, thats all.

Reply to
john boyle

In message , DP writes

Try convincing me then. In NZ & Aus, EFTPOS means exactly the same as it does here, and despite your previous assertions to the contrary, it covers both Credit, Charge & Debit card transactions.

The colloquial use of the term EFTPOS seems to differ, I grant you, in the same way Yanks call 'cell phones' what we call 'mobile phones'.

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Reply to
john boyle

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