Court wants to know my NI number..

So they can check that you are not lying through your teeth about your income.

But what relevance does his income have on whether or not he is guilty of the speeding offense? If found guilty, is the penalty somehow related to the offender's income level?

Chris

Wouldn't his NI number only reveal the NI contributions that he's paid though? How would that reveal his income?

What about if he were self-employed and doesn't pay NI contributions (as often is the case)?

Jim D

None, I guess. They want to know his income so they can decide on a suitable fine, I gather.

Yes, I think so.

Jim D

None.

Correct, all fines imposed by a court have been related to ability to pay for a considerable number of years. The aim is to make the experience equally painful for all income brackets. The change was IIRC instituted in the LoadsaMoney era of the 80s when yooves earning thousands a week in the building trade were openly boasting about being given £30 fines for speeding offences and weekend alcohol fuelled crimes of violence when their income was such that they regarded £30 as a drop in the ocean.

"Jim D" wrote

Naughty naughty! In that case, the court oughta impose fines for non-payment of the required S/E NI...

His NI number can be used to track his tax returns and his payment record as well as PAYE. Self employed people have to pay NI, just at a reduced rate.

In Sweden (I think) they fine you a % so the more you earn the more you're fined.

I thought paying NI contributions was optional for S/E people. What is the penalty for not paying?

Jim D

I suspect it is for identification and / or database purposes. I would not think it is for your income details as your tax affairs are confidential.

Your tax return is normally "keyed" on your NI number. If you don't have an NI number (or like me they know you as three people) you get an alternative reference on the tax return document.

Do HMRC have an obligation to disclose tax records (which in turn lead to income details) to the Court when requested by the Court?

Your tax affairs are not confidential from the government, any wing of government or the judiciary.

You were wrong. Payment is permitted at a reduced rate.

It depends, it runs all the way up to imprisonment just as it does for anyone not paying their taxes.

Only if their profits are less than £4465. Otherwise it is mandatory to pay class 2 contributions (of £2.10 per week). You also have to pay class 4 contributions of 8% of the amount by which profits exceed £5035 (up to £33540, 1% thereafter).

Even if your profits are less than the exception limit, it might be worth paying C2 anyway (unless you are also employed and paying C1) because it earns you qualifying years for the state pension.

Don't know. £100? The slammer? No pension? All of the above?

Strange you ask that because I am in HMRC and I was thinking the same question. Generally our powers to disclose information are extremely limited - even to police and security services / Treasury. Before 9/11 I think I am correct in saying we could only dislose to police in murder and treason cases ( I went for this post in 1997 but was unsuccessful ) but this was not via a Court Order. Since then the gateway is widened under new legislation ( 2001 ?) - but this legislation allows information to be released but it not an information power i.e. other agencies cannot demand it. In answer to your question information can be released by a Court Order but I would think this is for more serious cases rather than connected with the ability to pay fines. In over 20 years I have never been aware that this is a valid reason to disclose information - I therefore suspect the answer is no but I may be wrong.

Yes they are.

To clarify - they are to the extent there has to be a valid reason to disclose ( i.e. prevention and detection of crime ). Saying they are not confidential does not mean information can be disclosed if there is not a valid reason - i.e. out of curiosity.

As you might expect from those in authority, it's a pretty crude effort though. Also it's related to earnings local to the court. From the Magistrates Sentencing Guidelines -

"(v) Look at the financial circumstances of the offender. A means form is sent to every offender who is prosecuted for an offence and he/she is expected to fill this in before coming to court, or pleading guilty by letter. Make sure you ask to see the means form in every case where you are considering imposing a financial penalty. You must always enquire into an offender's means before fixing the amount of any financial penalty.

(vi) Try to create an equal impact on offenders of different means.

If the offender's means:

(a) are low and he/she is in receipt of state benefit and at subsistence level, you should consider reducing the fine by up to two thirds;

(b) are above average, you should consider multiplying the amount by up to two;

(c) are very high, you should consider multiplying the amount by up to three.

NB1: Consult your Clerk as to current average earnings in the locality.

NB2: A fine should be capable of payment within a maximum of twelve months, but preferably within six months from imposition. (See the guide to the assessment of a fine on page 6)."