Re: New Electrical Regs - Again

That isn't what's proposed. It's difficult to work out what is proposed, but it will most likely be based on being a member of NICEIC, and nothing to do with being a qualified electrician. The government was estimating about 40% of electricians currently belong to electrical trade bodies, but the trade itself seems to put the figure much lower, at little more than 25%.

The technical justification was non-existant (well, it did exist, but it was just plain wrong, and so very obviously so). The motivation is not a technical or safety one, although that's what the press releases from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister would try and have you believe.

I think the reason is to avoid people doing a job badly and creating a danger.

No, I think that you are on at least part of the money. You have our pugilistic pal and his cronies to thank for that.

The excuse presented was that there would be a reduction in electrical accidents and fires (when almost all come from portable appliances and their wiring and not fixed wiring).

This is also part of a series of construction legislation whereby a tradesman belonging to a specified trade organisation (according to the discipline) can self certify his work. Of course the tradesman does have to have been trained or have appropriate experience and be a member of said organisation to do this. Such membership will be more economically viable for larger firms than for a tradesman who might work in multiple disciplines. Membership fees and other costs will of course be passed on to the customer.

This of course creates the 21st century equivalent to the closed shop, especially when your point about it making it much easier for tradespeople to be tracked through said organisations.

There is as well a general impicit put down of DIY activity as well. For example, on the web site of one of these unions in disguise, the Institute of Plumbers, there is a put down to the effect that it's OK to put up a few shelves but that plumbing requires a skilled and approved tradesman. Yeah, sure.

Never mind though. In letters from the minister responsible for all of this via their MPs, several people asking about DIY electrical work have been told that all is OK - they can submit a Building Notice at the local authority. One small snag. Most local authorities know nothing about this impending legislation, have not been funded to handle it and are not professionally equipped. Not to worry, though

- if they squeak, they will have their budget capped.

Yes of course, this is another infringement of personal freedom by the nanny state and a not very stealthy stealth tax.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

You may want to believe that if you are an Alastair Campbell fan.....

There is nothing to support this legislation based on evidence of safety and improved standards.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

If this is so, he doesn't need an electrical certificate - he needs a decent accountant. We'd all like to pay less, equally there are lots of legal ways to cut your tax bills.

Would someone post a URL for a fuller explanation of what is happening?

Well spill da beenz den. How! I've already got a covenant in favour of the local church, don't need any more of them.

The obvious option in this selected instance, bartering, is not an option any more because of the issue of the electrical certificate.

Providing we're both paying higher rate tax (And accepting therefore we've already had some income at lower rate) I can't see where my calculations are wrong.

DG

Do you want the government version or the truth?

This is the government version.

1) Check the way that the statistics have been gathered and (mis)represented. There is little or no basis on grounds of safety based on actual data to support this legislation

2) Note also the way that no account has been made of the opinions of the public. Those who did bother to write to their MPs have been ignored, very blatantly.

3) Try to work out how it might be enforced.

Then tell us your conclusions.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Very few incidents in view of the millions of installations

I'm surprised any member of the public got to hear in the first place. This is a stitch up closed shop.

It cannot be enforced except when a house changes hands and the seller is going to have to shell out for a gas safety certificate and an elecrical safety certificate.

The country is getting more like ancient china every day. You are going to need a chit to shit soon.

Exactly. I suspect that that will happen and also that people will go for regularisation certificates from building control departments at local authorities.

From a quick scan at a few local authority web sites, it appears that a regularisation fee is the same as a building notice fee and that the first does not carry VAT whereas the second does. Ergo, it would appear to cheaper to do nothing at the outset and apply for regularisation later.

Quite.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The country under this fascist dictatorial regime is now becoming well beyond a joke. If any f......g government jobsworth tries to enter my house and dictate to me what I can or cannot do in my own home, he'll be leaving on a stretcher!

Carry on beating your wife and children, then.

So if I change a plug, or replace a fuse, I'll have to call someone in?

Yeah, right - like that's gonna happen!

No Dave, my rage has got absolutely nothing to do with the way I conduct myself towards my family, along with millions of others it's directed against this government, who on an almost daily basis appear to have an agenda of introducing rules and regulations affecting ordinary decent law-abiding people, most of whom are pefectly content to be left alone to get on with their lives.

No, but almost. Read the notes on the ODPM web site in the building regulations area. .andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

You have a short memory if you think it is only this government that does this. They all need to control the population - it's what they do.

Home office, dividends to wife, parents/children.

Why can't you still barter?

Even with full VAT + higher rate + NI. I make the tax mans cut of every additional 1 earnt only 55.5%.

The current government is based from top to bottom on lies and deception (mainly to avoid the impractical laws they introduce) why don't you just copy their example and do what you have always done.

Because the certificate would be proof positive of a Vat fraud and a fraud against the business.

I don't personally know the detail of how the individual taxes are applied, where the limits are but at the very least there's excise duty on road fuels, vehicle excise duty, "new car tax",and council tax, as well as all the "nickle and dime" permits, licences, stamp duties, and charges (OPRA etc). to go towards the 80%.

Good idea

DG

That's not "domestic electrical work" IE work on a house.

But it's almost as bad as that, it's pretty bad now before they've even started. I bought an ordinary ceiling fan from B&Q, called a local electrician in to fit it and he refused "your ceiling's too low mate it's against the rules" but I have an ordinary modern house built in 1976 the ceiling is 7' 6" from the floor. "Somebody might pick up a little child from the floor and throw it up into the whirling blades of the fan"

So I fitted it myself.

1 year later got a Corgi man in, he came into the front room and said "You can't have an open gas fire in a room with a ceiling fan" I said we don't use them both at the same time the fan is to cool us down the fire is to make us warm" and even if we did the fan has no effect on the fire. Doesn't matter he said It's against the rules, I can't service the fire.

And they haven't started yet!

One of the things bothering me is that I'll have to have all these petty non- compliances resolved before I can sell the house.

DG