Selling your home privately in the UK

Because for each house that they sell they have the effort and expense of trying to sell perhaps as many as 10 others.

This is what happen with 'no sale no fee', the people that sell have to pay the costs of the peole that don't.

The problem is that the person doing this job is a 'salesman'. And if you want a good salesman to remain working for you, you have to pay a salary comensurate with what they could earn in a different selling role, many of which pay silly money. You can't staff an EA office with people who's OTE is

tim

When I looked at the number of house sales in this region over the last year from the land registry, I'd suggest an agency doing 6-8 a month would've meant the rest of the agents were doing 1, the average of all sales was only about 2 per agency per month, and I have no idea how many land registry sales actually go through estate agents.

For example now, there appear to have been 8 sales in the EX8 postcode, the EX8 postcode on yell returns 31 estate agents - although some are duplicates...

Jim.

The last time I sold a house (a couple of years ago) I easilly negotiated 1% I think I could have got it lower.

My negotiating stance was that the costs to them of selling are not based on the size of the house therefore why should I pay any more on a 500k house than someone selling a 250k house ? (Their standard rate was 2%).

And that I think is what is fundamentally wrong with estate agents. Why are we still paying a percentage based on the value of our homes? The amount we pay should be relative to the expenditure incurred by the agent to sell your home, surely this is the most fair and transparent solution??

I am a 26 year old entrepreneur and I setup MonkeyMove.com as I can see that there is clearly something unfair about the way estate agents operate. Although I am a strong advocate of the internet I am at the same time a realist and I appreciate that some people will always prefer to deal with agents. But since I setup this company I have listed over 400 properties and I regularly speak to people who have successfully sold their property using the service. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is the right way to go and I will continue to relentlessly promote it the best I can.

Apart from the fact they are out and out liars. (Maybe not all of them, but all I have ever dealt with)

Good Luck and keep at it.

When you get successful, how much money would it take to tempt you to sell to a bunch of Estate Agents ?

Thats a serious question - If today I offered you 100,000 GBP for your business would you take it ?

Estate Agents used to charge higher percentages years ago and they have come down in these days of higher selling prices. I am not an Estate Agent but work in a related field and know several who despair at the increasing numbers of people who misuse their services. Ultimately the agents have to build in these abortive costs. These include folks who think nothing of asking multiple agents for a valuation as they have every year for years just so they can gloat over their homes worth, folks who ask not just a few agents but we know of those who have made a hobby of it asking every single agent in the town and even those from nearby towns (one case was no less than ten agents), those who put their home on the market to see what happens and then find a buyer and decide not to sell (assume these are amongst your 1 in 3 that fail).

As another poster said there are overheads and if you peanuts for staff you get poor staff.

Why is it that everyone has this "knock the agent" mentality. They are just doing a job like a taxi driver, a shop worker, etc. From where I am operating the agent takes the blame often when it is the vendor who has made a decision which expect the agent to implement and then deny their decision to the buyer and so the agents get the blame.

A good argument for a fixed price fee.

There is absolutely nothing to stop agents asking for a fee for valuations. And if they spot scams like this they should - or just provide a valuation without a visit based on no significant changes to the property or surrounding area.

I had 5 valuations on the last house I sold - how many do you think is reasonable ?

I had initially asked for 3 but there was a 20% difference between the highest and lowest so I ask for more opinions.

What percentage is that, and what are the reasons ? Maybe they just cant find the place they want to move to in time.

Because they are very poor at justifying the fees they charge. (and you have made no attempt to justify them here)

I think not - when was the last time you handed over several thousand pounds to a taxi driver ?

In fact - when else does any ordinary person hand over thousands for any service.

I don't think that agents usually get the blame when a sale falls through - unless they have lied during the process.

Wholeheartedly agree.

One.

New central heating. Major roof repair. Double glazing. New kitchen. OK, most of those have a heavy "goods" component and are not entirely "services". Nevertheless, people do pay thousands for lots of things.

One pays hefty brokerage fees when selling one's yacht too, you know (and hundreds for a survey when buying one). Not many people (and hence not many ordinary people) have yachts, you might argue, but many yachts are in fact owned by "ordinary persons".

At this stage I wouldn't sell as I am more interested in the challenge rather than the value of the business. If this idea does succeed then I would be considered a bit of a hypocrit if I were to sell out to the estate agents, especially if they were doing it to the disadvantage of the consumer and to protect their own margins.

So we now know you are a champion for consumer rights?

Why ?

and I also (seriously) considered it as a sales opportunity for the agents to sell their services to me and convince me why I should pick them over their rivals.

People also pay thousands for holidays (which is usually very close to 100% services) but can see a lot more value in a holiday than in the service they see from a estate agent.

How much, and is it normally a percentage or a fixed price - I would imagine that the services involved are very similar to estate agents - It would be interesting to see any pricing differences.

Mmmm!! No I don't think I want to reply to your points - too radical and doubt you would listen as you seem to have the attitude you are always right.

My points are too radical or your comments would be ? (and anyway what is wrong with being radical?)

Where have I displayed that attitude ? I could also ask where have I been wrong :-)

Maybe you just don't have answers for my points and have taken the usual route towards personal insult instead of valid discussion.

The value of a property is what someone will pay for it. It may be true that some estate agents are better at achieving a higher actual selling price than others, but it is unlikely that an estate agent's valuation bears any close resemblance to what they will in fact achieve. It is daft, therefore, to decide which of several agents to enter into a sole agency agreement with, purely on the basis of whoseever valuation is highest, in the misguided belief that they will in fact achieve an offer at that price.

So if you want an independent valuation, get a surveyor to do one.

That's fair enough. Ask them to quote their fee rate. Not all agents charge the same percentage, do they? Ask them to provide their independently-audited average selling times, and their average ratio of price achieved to their original valuation. I dare say most will be reluctant to disclose the last two.

It's not even clear on what basis to choose an agent if several have told you their (different) fee rates. A higher-charging agent may have better marketing skills which will achieve a higher selling price.

An agent who gave a low valuation may achieve *that* price sooner, and then put in no additional effort to get a bit more, because what good will it do them to get an extra 5% if it's going to takemore than 5% more effort or time?

Generally the service they get from an estate agent is that they get a higher actual selling price than they would "privately".

Generally a percentage which varies with the selling price of the boat. Here's one scale I've seen: Up to £1000: 10% (subject to minimum of £60). Up to £5000: 8% Above £5000: 8% of £5k plus 6% of the rest. All plus VAT. I'd expect the majority of sales to be in the £5k-£50k range, and probably most of those between £10k and £35k.

I'd also guess that with prices much above £100k, the percentage would come down a bit. But for an average £25k boat you're looking at not much change out of £2k once you've paid the VAT.

I will certainly not waste my time answering you when you make the following statement: -

"Apart from the fact they are out and out liars".

If you have found that why didn't you ever complain about them or do you just whinge on News Groups. Why not complain and give them chance to own up to their erroneous ways or prove otherwise.

I did, the surveyors valuation was over 10% less than the price achieved, and less than the lowest Estate agents valuation.

Also, I didnt go with the agent who gave the highest valuation.

It was however very interesting to hear the EA's & surveyor talk about each other - and say XX will say it is worth x to get your business and then ask you to reduce the price when it doesnt sell in x months. YY will underprice it for a quick sale. etc etc

I doubt if any of them could calculate the last two accurately.

Which can be seen in samples of their particulars, and determined by discussion with them about the property.

A lower-charging agent may have better marketting skills and not need to charge as much as they make more sales.

The vendor can (and did) set the price, regardless of what the chosen agent suggested.

The asking price and the chosen agent are two totally separate things.

Which is absolutely impossible to prove or disprove.

The service one gets from EA's is:

- Some advertising.

- Some brochures mailed.

- Some prospective purchasers given a key to your property and told to show themselves around. Despite firm instructions to the contrary and the obvious dangers therein.

So not too dissimilar from house sales. Either a fair pricing structure or a lucrative business. Maybe I should get copies of some of the local EA's accounts.

And why do you decide not to quote me in full ? "(Maybe not all of them, but all I have ever dealt with)"

I didn't take it further because the lies were verbal and could not be proven.

All cross sections of society has its liars even the cross section you are in, or the work you are in, but you seem to suggest Estate Agents are the worst liars unless I have mistaken you - or misquoted you?

I have never said that - So you have both misquoted and mistaken me.

Now - shall we get back to a sensible and adult discussion of the issues ?