Strange letter from (UK) Volvo Owners Insurance

I've insured my Volvos with Volvo Owners Insurance (administered by Royal and Sun Alliance) for a number of years - but am going elsewhere this year because they have hyped up the premium and imposed an excess on glass damage for the first time in living memory.

They issued the renewal invitation one month before the renewal date (which is 25th October), as usual - but I have ignored it because of going elsewhere. This morning I received a letter from them saying:

Dear Mr X,

We refer to our letter of 24 September asking for payment of XXX in respect of the above policy. To date, we have no record of payment received.

Please pay this amount by one of the following methods {cheque, credit card, on-line} by 18th October 2007.

If we do not receive your payment by 18 October 2007, we will be obliged to take further action. This may include cancellation of cover or cancellation of your entire policy. Where the policy is already cancelled, the debt may be placed in the hands of an agency to pursue collection.

How dare they! *What* debt? My policy is fully paid up until renewal date, and I have made no commitment whatsoever to renew with them. I owe them

*nothing*!

Have they taken leave of their senses - or are *all* motor insurance companies doing this sort of thing these days?

Reply to
Roger Mills
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You need to go into insurance office and showing this letter. If your are paid up to date-bring proof. They can not change coverage in the middle. Yes, they can change it at the time of renewal but not before.

Good luck

Reply to
Greg Rozelle

It may well be that you have unwittingly entered into an arrangement whereby renewal is automatic unless you tell them otherwise. Mine with Direct Line works like that, and the renewal invitation letter reminds me that if I want to renew, I need do nothing (except tell them about any details which have changed) and that the premium will be collected by DD a few days after renewal.

So you *could have* made a commitment to renew (whilst of course reserving the right to change your mind, in which case you ought to have let them know). If that is the case, and if they do renew, and subsequently cancel the renewed policy, they could indeed hold you liable for the uncancelled portion of the renewal premium.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

cancellation

Yup - a lot have changed their T&C's to say something like "your policy will automatically renew at the end of the year unless you tell us otherwise". Did yours?

Reply to
Andy Pandy

Absolutely not! The renewal invitation letter (referred to in this latest threatening letter) says: How to renew your cover

{things about payment options}

Please ensure that we receive your premium payment prior to your renewal date, otherwise your cover will cease automatically.

I can live with that - but *not* with "Pay by one week before renewal date, or we'll take legal action" - which is the gist of the latest letter!

In the past, I have always paid - one year at a time - by giving them my credit card details over the phone, and have never used a DD or given them any other sort of continuous payment authority.

Reply to
Roger Mills

Fair enough. It was probably a "computer error", then.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

Ceasing to cover you is not the same thing as you not having a contract to pay them. It's quite likely that the default action on your part (not cancelling, not paying) will leave you in a position of owing them for a policy that no longer exists, as an enforceable contract.

Why do you think otherwise? Why do you think they might have _your_ interests at heart?

Reply to
Andy Dingley

Do not rely on that belief; make sure you cancel prior to, and with effect on, the expiration date of the current year policy unless you believe litigation is entertainment, when you should stick to your fine principles. The insurer is required to insure you unless and until you or they terminate the cover, and they will not terminate the policy prior to its expiration by which time you will already be liable for some further payment. So it's your choice - play the silly bugger or give them a phone call.

Tony

Reply to
Anthony R. Gold

I suspect it's a not-so-subtle way of applying pressure on you to renew instead of shopping around. You could probably get a lower premium off your current insurer if you start a new policy with them - a disloyalty bonus, in other words.

Matti (writing from uk.finance)

Reply to
Matti Lamprhey

I recently took out a year's policy over the phone. I was told verbally that they would renew automatically and was asked if this was okay, to which I replied 'no'.

When the paperwork came through I noticed that they had nevertheless included the statement "We reserve the right [to renew automatically, and you will be liable for payment, but you can opt out at any time]".

For a start, "We reserve the right..." is an interesting choice of language. To reserve a right, surely they have to be in possession of that right to start with. I don't think they are in such possession.

In any case, it occurred to me to consider what the position would be if they hadn't already asked the question over the phone (or, equivalently, if they refused to acknowledge that they had done so, if and when it became an issue).

The way I see it is this: If I bought a book over the phone, or over the Internet, and when it arrived it came with a letter saying that they had reserved the right to sell me further books, but that I could take the trouble to 'opt out' of that system if I wanted, I don't think they would have a leg to stand on if I ignored it. It's unsolicited goods. And if they charged my CC, I'd like to think that the CC Co would agree.

Why should it be any different buying a year's insurance cover?

So, I haven't bothered to do anything about it.

(Follow-ups set)

Reply to
Clifford Frisby

So, genuine questions:

Is this requirement an insurance-specific thing?

Is it a recently-introduced requirement?

What regulations is the insurer bound by regarding the setting of the new premium, to ensure fair play?

Reply to
Clifford Frisby

Because of the money involved there are far more rules covering fair play in the sale of insurance than there are in the sale of books. I'm guessing you know that however.

Reply to
Roadie

Yes, in fact I had already phoned them - to tear them off a strip for the letter and to cancel the policy from the renewal date - before I posted my original message.

They were not all that apologetic - so I assume that's now their standard procedure. They seem to have undergone an upheaval (office move / cost-cutting exercise) of some sort recently anyway, and don't seem anything like as clued up as they used to be. They've got a new computer, which holds more information about their customers than the old one. In their first attempt at a renewal notice they made up the missing information - with the result that I apparently passed my driving test when was 7, and my wife passed hers when she was 4!

Reply to
Roger Mills

In message , Roger Mills writes

The InsCo is regulated by the FSA.

The FSAs overiding principle is that all those authorised by them should 'treat customers fairly'.

You post certainly appears to me to be an example of you *not* being treated fairly.

On the basis of the info you have posted it seems to me that your insurers are out of order. Contact them and tell them what you think (but in a reasonable way) but if you sense that the conversation is not going your way be sure to introduce the words 'treating customers fairly'.

Reply to
John Boyle

In that case you might need to cancel your credit card - On the basis that anyone who deals this way is certainly not below drawing your premium from your credit card - And credit card companies are obliged to pay them

Reminds me of a nasty experience I one had - I was buying my telephone service through 'World Online' to get free internet service - Every single bill I recieved (paid directly from my Visa credit card) was overcharged - after 6 months of over billing I final told them to sort the whole mess out - give me a final bill and we were finished - Planning to make my final payment by cheque (so they could over charge me) I called Visa and told them not to pay World Online any more money

Visa: "We have to" Me: "What?" Visa: "If someone makes a demand on a credit card we have to pay" Me: "Yes but it's my money and I'm telling you not to pay them - Can't you just put a note on my account?" Visa: "But it's not your money" Me: "Yeah - but you'll be asking me to pay it back" Visa: "True" Me: "Well I'm asking you not to pay them because they are a bunch of crooks" Visa: "They won't stay in business very long if that's true" Me: "They won't be - and mean time you want to give them my money - What if they asked you for £5000?" Visa: "Then we have to pay" Me: "Don't be ridiculous - I've just told you they're crooks and you are not to give them any more of my money" Visa: "But we have to" Me: "Well you can give them all you like but it won't be 'my' money" Visa: "But it's on your account" Me: "It won't be because I'm cutting up my card as we speak & cancelling my card right now"

Reply to
JethroUK

No way. There is either a contract or there is not. That means that either they will provide cover and you will owe them for it, or they won't and you won't. You owing them for cover they don't provide is not an option.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

premium from

No they aren't (except for CCA's). If you dispute the transaction the credit card company will ask for proof from the retailer that the transaction was authorised, and if the retailer can't provide that proof then the credit card company must refund you. They may put the amount "in dispute" for a few months, so it'll still be on your statements but they won't charge interest.

However, if you've given anyone a CCA (continuous charge authority), they can pretty much charge what they like when they like, as you've pre-authorised them to! And unlike DD's you can't stop them with the bank.

telephone

Which would almost cetainly have been a CCA. Hence your problems....

Reply to
Andy Pandy

They were authorised to draw monies from my Visa card

but that was before i realised they were crooks - I acted on this new information by closing my account (any business) with them - and you would expect Visa to respond similarly to the new information - but i don't think i was talking to a real Visa telesales person - i think it was just a goat with a headset on

Hence the whole debarcle - and the O.P. may have unwittingly done similar

Reply to
JethroUK

Absolutely not! In any case, that theory doesn't fit the facts. If they believed I had given them a CCA, they'd just have debited my CC, not threatened me for not paying.

Reply to
Roger Mills

Indeed, but if you then breach that (by not paying), they no longer need to honour it. If the contract that you _did_ agree to last year included these terms (and some of them now do) you can find yourself bound to a contract and owing for it, but with it already cancelled as far as the cover goes.

Reply to
Andy Dingley

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