1. Home
  2. UK Finance Discussions
  3. Unsigned credit card and separate ID card

Unsigned credit card and separate ID card

Yesterday I was in a pub in West London, propping up the bar. It's a touristy pub and the staff are well used to customers paying for drinks with credit and debit cards.

An American girl came to the bar and ordered a round of drinks. She offered to pay by Visa credit card, which contained the words "See ID" in thick black marker-pen on the signature strip.

The Aussie barman queried the card, and the girl went back to her table and returned with an ID card showing her photograph and signature, which matched the slip she had just signed.

The barman was still unsure whether to accept the card as it hadn't been signed.

The girl insisted that she didn't have to sign the back of the credit card, as the signature was on the ID card, and this prevented anyone else using her card fraudulently.

The barman remained unconvinced, but the landlady said that it would be OK.

The barman later commented to me that he'd never seen a credit card which referred to a separate ID card for signature verification before, either in London or back home in Sydney. He also said that the thick black marker pen could sometimes be used to hide a genuine signature underneath, and coupled with an issuing bank that he had never heard of, that he would not have accepted the card.

The landlady then chipped in to say that "we get them all the time", that they were always American customers who did this, and that it wasn't a problem.

Any comments?

Was the barman right to query this credit card?

Is this method of signature verification acceptable to Visa / Mastercard?

Robin

Reply to
Robin Cox
Loading thread data ...

In message , Robin Cox writes

It contravenes the terms of use for UK credit cards and the merchant was also failing to observe the terms and conditions so the CreditCardCo could refuse payment.

Yes

Reply to
john boyle

Isn't there a telephone number a merchant can call if he has any queries about the acceptability of a credit card? I would have thought that would have been the simplest way to get the assurance he was looking for.

Reply to
Chris Blunt

Hmm - I thought selling alcohol on credit (including credit cards) in a public house (except as part of a meal) is not legal under UK licensing laws. Somebody care to clarify?

Reply to
John

In message , John writes

I think that was changed when licensing laws were recently reviewed.

Reply to
john boyle

formatting link
====Date 07 October 1999

Source The Licensee and Morning Advertiser

Author Susanna Poppleston

Title Defering payment for intoxicating liquor

Text

It's funny how some questions suddenly arise and seem to buzz round the industry.

I've had a number of queries. One is whether you can defer payment for intoxicating liquor in various circumstances.

I've made it entirely clear before in this column that if the liquor is to be consumed on the premises the Licensing Act requires payment for intoxicating liquor before or at the time it is sold or supplied in any licensed premises, canteen or a registered club.

Similarly it's an offence for the person to consume intoxicating liquor if it hadn't been paid for as set out above. So, the licensee and the customer are at risk of a fine if this is breached.

But the argument as to whether payment is made at the time of sale, when you present one of the huge variety of cards for payment, is a different issue.

Those which effectively take the money directly out of your account, and straight into the licensee's account are a direct payment made at the time.

There's more difficulty with credit cards.

Initially it was thought this was deferring payment. This is hard to understand from the customer's point of view. He has presented his card, taken all the steps he needs to do for payment of his debt, and any other arrangements are between the licensee and the finance company.

What does 'paid for' mean? 'Paid for' by the customer may only mean that part of the transaction has been carried out.

The payment is certainly not complete at that stage because it hasn't reached the licensee.

But the Licensing Act reflected the methods of payment available in 1964, and life has moved on a lot since then.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't have thought this was the sort of issue authorities ought to be worrying about, unless it is part of a much broader problem so far as the licensee is concerned.

But, what about off sales? This issue has been queried recently. Section

166 of the Licensing Act is clear. It doesn't refer to off sales. It is specifically in relation to the sale or supply of intoxicating liquor for consumption on the premises - at least as far as the licensee is concerned.

As far as the customer is concerned, it's an offence to consume intoxicating liquor when it hasn't been paid for at the time. And the Act does not restrict it to on-licensed premises. But it would be very strange if the customer, not the licensee, were to be penalised in those circumstances.

So, it would seem to me sensible to say that people can have an arrangement with their local shop where they pay their bills at the end of a particular period without breaking the law. ====

Robin

Reply to
Robin Cox

BeanSmart website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.