Quicken's New Subscription Model - Your Quicken Data Will Be Read-Only If You Don't Pay Up

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 18:08:12 +0000 (UTC), David Arnstein


I upgraded every two or three years.
For me it was more of a "what did they break this time?" type of thing.
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XS11E wrote:

Time for me to post this list of 'alternatives' that I maintain for potential future use....
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AceMoney <http://www.mechcad.net/products/acemoney/personal-finance-software-quicken-alternative.shtml
GnuCash <http://www.gnucash.org/     platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)     open source (build and patch if necessary)     price (free)      jGnash <http://sourceforge.net/projects/jgnash/
KMyMoney https://kmymoney.org/KMyMoney     platform portability (Windows, Linux, and OS X)     open source (build and patch if necessary)     price (free)      Mint <https://www.mint.com/
MoneyDance <http://infinitekind.com/moneydance
MoneySpire <http://www.moneyspire.com/     2017 is supposedly much better, although import problems still exist      MoneyWiz <http://moneywizapp.com/
PocketMoney <http://www.catamount.com/pmd.html
NetStock: http://www.splitcycle.com/Products/Netstock     Not a Quicken alternative. The program may be used to replace or supplement Quicken quote fetching functionality.
********************************************************************
--
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Regards -
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Mon, 13 Feb 2017 20:45:18 -0600, "John Pollard"

Yes, the free market will determine the price for the product, but they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and other software, like MoneySpire. These may take a little more effort but with the small number of accounts and transactions it's not a substantial burden. This is the way we used to do it before CheckFree. I hope they will reconsider the pricing. Perhaps have several options for cheaper versions if you don't want investment or tax tracking or allerts or budgetting (as Money Spire does now). Just basic household management.
I've been using Quicken since MS-DOS and would love to just keep it going but not at 2.5 times current cost.
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price is excessive to you.

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Yes, the free market will determine the price for the product, but they take a big risk with home users simply wanting to manage a couple of checking accounts and credit cards. An increase as large as proposed will push many of us out, to the bank bill pay services and other software, like MoneySpire. These may take a little more effort but with the small number of accounts and transactions it's not a substantial burden. This is the way we used to do it before CheckFree. I hope they will reconsider the pricing. Perhaps have several options for cheaper versions if you don't want investment or tax tracking or allerts or budgetting (as Money Spire does now). Just basic household management.
I've been using Quicken since MS-DOS and would love to just keep it going but not at 2.5 times current cost. -------------------------------------------------
It seems you missed the point.
Neither you, nor any other user, is in a position to determine whether an estimated future subscription product will be successful in the U.S. ... and you should not be trying to pretend that you can do so.
Individual users will make that determination on their own, and the net effect of their decisions - which can only be known sometime well after the the new pricing is in effect - will be the deciding factor. No user should be foolish enough to rely significantly on the estimates of other users, who have no meaningful insights. The value of a product or service is 100% an individual decision - and not all users/potential-users will value a given product the same. Just because you do not think you will like the result means nothing to determining whether other users will find the product/price acceptable.
Further: I see no evidence that the experiment in Canada (which is priced in Canadian dollars for the only two Canadian versions) indicates that the new price for a subscription to Quicken in the U.S. will be 2.5 times the current cost for any U.S. user - it's more likely that the subscription price for U.S. users will be cheaper for those who typically upgrade every year, and "slightly" higher for those who typically upgrade every three years.
I suggest you recheck your premises.
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 20:25:24 -0600, "John Pollard"

I'm not pretending anything. All I suggested it that economics 101 says raising cost decreases consumption. I simply suggested some things that might cause that to happen.

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I agreed with what you said.

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John Pollard,
I find your answers here and previously on the Quicken Community forum to be extremely helpful and accurate.
I would very much like to know your opinion on the proposed data file locking on subscription lapse. Do you find this concerning?
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plateau.eyes wrote:
John Pollard,
I find your answers here and previously on the Quicken Community forum to be extremely helpful and accurate.
I would very much like to know your opinion on the proposed data file locking on subscription lapse. Do you find this concerning? ------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
If I ignore everything else, I can safely say I would prefer that there be no restriction on access to my Quicken data if I do not upgrade.
The trouble I see is that "everything else" is too important to ignore.
I start by asking myself how much I want Quicken to remain a viable product. While I can't put my wish into objective terms that would give others a number to compare to, for example; I can say that Quicken is valuable enough to me that I am prepared to accept what some consider to be unacceptable, in order to keep the product viable. If Quicken went out of business because they failed to implement this new subscription feature, I would be a very unhappy camper. [They may go out of business anyway, but they should not do so without trying every approach to avoid it.]
Quicken is the only personal financial product I know of that gives me the capabilities I want. [For users whose needs are very limited, there may be several other products that would be acceptable to them - I have no argument that would favor Quicken in that situation. But I don't believe that gives those users any legitimate ammunition to complain about Quicken's efforts to remain viable: if a person can use another product, they are fortunate but they should not want to interfere with those who can not.]
To some extent, the issue will boil down to whether the described "subscription" model is necessary and sufficient to keep Quicken in business. I don't believe any user has the information necessary to determine that - and I think even Quicken is making some guesses on the matter - but Quicken is clearly in a better position to know what it takes than any user.
Those users who claim the subscription model is a scam or an attempt to earn undeserved profits appear to be hoping that their claims, for which they have no evidence, will influence Quicken and other users away from the subscription model. My position is that I don't know whether the subscription model Quicken eventually implements will help: I suspect only time will tell. I have no information that would allow me to second guess Quicken; and I'm surely not going to try to tell other users how they should think or what they should do: choosing to use the subscription model is an individual decision; the same product, or service, will have a different perceived value for different individuals.
A lot of what I have read from users on this subject has been a rush to judgement. If you want to read some of that, you can check out this Quicken Community discussion: https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they [Note the link at the bottom of that discussion which will display the hidden comments.]
In my opinion, Eric Dunn's comments in that discussion make sense. When all users eligible for support are on the same version, Quicken will be able to provide better support, and to free up more resources to apply to fixing problems and introducing new features.
As it stands now, subscription model users will have complete "access" to their data even if they do not upgrade. As Eric Dunn says, " ... even after the subscription ends, users will have full access to all of their Quicken data, including the ability to edit,run/print reports, and export". At this point, I believe users should be asking Quicken for details about the meaning of "edit" and "export" in that sentence. [I believe the question about "export" has already been asked in the Quicken Community, and that Quicken is looking to provide an explanation. Since the Canadian subscription model is somewhat of an experiment, I suspect that the final features/limitations for the U.S. subscription version have not yet been determined.]
Many users have falsely represented the new subscription model as a large across-the-board price increase. Some of those users have failed to consider that the only prices known at this point are for the Canadian versions of Quicken. First; those prices are in Canadian dollars, they'd need to be converted to U.S. dollars for comparison. Second; there are only two Canadian versions, the equivalent of the U.S. Deluxe and Home & Business versions (while there are some five or six U.S. versions), so again, direct price comparisons may not make much sense.
What Quicken has said about pricing is that users who were upgrading every year will be paying less under the subscription model, and those who were upgrading every three years will be paying slightly more under the subscription model. I know of no one who has verifiable information which refutes that.
At the end of the day - if there are no new bombshell restrictions in a U.S.subscription version of Quicken, I will continue with my current practice, which is to purchase every new version. I start using a new version either when my current version expires, or sometimes when a newer version has some feature I really want (and/or fixes a problem that I really dislike about my current version). I purchase every version because: I want to know how it works and to be able to investigate claims made by others about how it does, or does not, work; and I want to support Quicken ... I want Quicken to continue to be around; it is by far my most valuable software product (and I consider it well worth its current price, and estimated future price).
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On 2017-02-15 10:05 AM, John Pollard wrote:

Another shill for the owners of Quicken. You have folded like a cheap Italian suit. This is the time when a strong, solid wall of disapproval should be shown. You are a very poor negotiator.
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On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 9:05:31 AM UTC-8, John Pollard wrote:

I completely agree.
I am concerned about the potential instability of Quicken's required software updates in the new model.
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I'm hoping this will get better! Today, Quicken has a confused mix of subscription - every three years - and new features - every year. So they need to try to encourage updates at more than three year intervals.
With pure subscription the only reasons to modify the software are true improvements or response to (non existent) competition. So hopefully product stability will have more value and low value changes less value to the developers.
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John, thanks for your usual thorough and thoughtful response.
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John Pollard wrote:

=======snipped=======>

I agree 100%. We need Quicken to continue to be around. If the price goes too high, someone will come up with a better product but I don't expect that to happen.
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On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 9:05:31 AM UTC-8, John Pollard wrote:

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It appears users of lapsed subscriptions will have the ability to use the p roduct without online services and support (essentially one-year instead of the current three-year model): https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reve rse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read -only-if-they?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Bfilter_by%5D=all&topic-rep ly-list%5Bsettings%5D%5Breply_id%5D851715#reply_18851715
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 20:25:24 -0600, "John Pollard"
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I hope you're right!
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On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 9:25:18 PM UTC-5, John Pollard wrote:

What a douchebag you sound like.
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 13:00:52 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@nada.com wrote:

Yes.
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wrote:

Agreed. They may be wise to offer diffeent tiers depending on what features you want. We have twp checking accounts and 2 credit cards. That's it. Don't need portfolio management functions, not even scheduled payments. Just updates and bank bill pay.
On the other hand they are free to charge what the like for whatever they offer, and the market will decide.
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On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 3:00:59 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@nada.com wrote:

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I agree. I've also been a Quicken user since DOS but if they go thru with t his, I'll find a substitute. I won't be held hostage to my own data. I doub t I'm alone. The marketplace drives companies out of business every day and I suspect this move could put them on that path (at least for home users). There are substitutes and the upgrades in recent years haven't provided me any marginal value, only marginal cost. It's a good time to look elsewhere anyway. Quicken is living off its past already.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

As posted previously, the days of consumer desktop/laptop financial management software has long passed and moved to mobile devices with subscription cloud based apps. We dinosaurs may not like it, but it's a reality. Many banks already offer dashboards that include linking accounts from other financial institutions.
In my own case, looking back on my behavior, Quicken is really a big data sink. Other than the occasional look for a historical transaction, I find I rarely use the budgeting tools or reports. The calculators are easily replaced by a quick Google search. The only thing I do look at semi-regularly are investment totals. I never used the linkage to TurboTax - prefer to enter the foundation numbers myself.
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Take a look at Moneyspire. It's a really good Quicken alternative and the software is not a subscription. They have a free trial at http://www.moneyspire.com
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