0870 rip-off / Oftel Consultation

I doubt it - calling our number is the least of their call costs.

Evasive in what way? Since I know that calls to 870 numbers are charged at nothing like "national rate" why would I try to mislead our customers by suggested they are?

perhaps like me 0870 numbers are included in his mobile phone inclusive minutes :)

Phil

I happen to know the geographic number for Sky if you want it :)

email me if you want it. snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMdsl.pipex.com

Simon

There's nothing wrong with that, the problem is the Oftel approved lie that companies are allowed to tell customers about the cost of calling 0870 numbers - ie "charged at national rate". I don't believe there is a single landline tariff that charges 0870 the same as normal national rate calls, most charge 2-3 times as much. Even the BT standard tariff charges 0870 differently as you can't use your call allowance against 0870 calls.

> However, this document is extremely length and confusing, and serves > to complicate an issue that is very simple from the consumers' > perspective. It also appears to show that Oftel are more concerned > with maintaining the revenues of telephone companies than ensuring > cheaper phone calls for the public. >

Hmm.. I meant to post about this here about a month ago after I went to a OFTEL presentation as I was surprised no one had mentioned it here in uk.telecom..

However, before sending comments to OFTEL you should understand what they are proposing as the consultation covers more than just 0845/0870 numbers, as it also covers 0844/0871 numbers and it would be a missed opportunity if you only commented on the 0845/0870 element.

In brief (and remember this presentation was a month ago!), they are consulting on the below:

If 0845/0870 calls should continue to be described as local/national rate. At the moment BT is the *only* telco which follows the OFTEL guidelines and actually charges the same for 0845/0870 calls as for its normal geographic calls (on their standard tariff) and as such some consumers have problems have problems understanding why 0845/0870 calls are excluded from their BT Together tariffs.

However, according to OFTEL, someconsumers find it "helpful" that non geographic calls are described as local/national rate (maybe 30%) with another 30% preferring adverts etc quoted the pence/minute charge instead..

or if they were to change things:

One proposal is that local/national link is broken and that 0845/0870 numbers should be allocated in 1k blocks with each number range having a different price (subject to a cap) so they can introduce "competition" into the 0845/0870 market.

Another proposal is that 0845/0870 numbers are left alone but they introduce "competition" in the 0844/0871 number range - with each 10k number block having a different price (again with a cap) so that companies/call centres/banks can compete on the cost of calling them

They also have other proposals like getting OFTEL to set the retail prices for 0845/0870 numbers but I think those are extremely unlikely..

My personal view was that it seemed to be an attempt to introduce competition in the relevant number ranges which may be well and good but could potentially be very confusing for the consumer if the competition proposals went ahead with consumers not really knowing the price of each call unless they checked.

Instead, they should leave things as they are but should no longer allow

0845/0870 calls to be described as local/national rate.

Ironically, while OFTEL have launched the consultation now, they know it will be OFCOM who will have to make the decision on this - and the impression I got is that they are slightly relieved its not down to them :)

Regards Sunil

"Andrew Crane" a crit dans le message de news: bqps8v$23pa$ snipped-for-privacy@custnews.inweb.co.uk...

numbers.

Virtually

termination

operators.

What a pathetic argument. It comes down to saying that a company cannot stay profitable (and in business) unless it overcharges and that that is a good thing. Well it isn't and the quicker such companies go into receivership the better.

"Andy Pandy" wrote

What "call allowance"? (on standard tariff)

BT give you a 2.15/month call allowance on the BT Standard tariff (10.50/9.50 if you pay by DD) against qualifying calls (mainly local, national, international and 0845 calls) made over BT's network.

The relevant entry on the BT price list is at

Regards Sunil

National rate is effectively free for me if I use my mobile, and I never go over the free call allowance. 0870 is not.

Anything which isn't 01 or 02.

It usually means 08 numbers as 07 is referred to as mobile and 09 as premium.

Except that some 07 numbers are also premium.

"overcharges" ? I think you mean "makes a profit". I guess you don't run a business yourself, but have a steady income from some fairly safe source. Do you consider your employer "overcharges" or "makes a profit" so they can pay you ? If "overcharges" then you should resign on principle, if "makes a profit" you need to reconsider your view on telco income from 0870, IMO.

Glad you wrote "effectively". On the basis that after some period the mobile network will provide a free mobile phone as an upgrade, that makes the monthly fee cover (a) network access and (b) calls.

Say you pay 2500p a month and get 200 minutes included during that month, then comparing with a BT line, let's take 1000p for "line" rental so the remainder covers your 200 minutes. That makes each minute 1500/200 or 7.5p, so a fraction under the cost from a BT line for 0870. Of course you may be on a different tariff but for many contract customers, I expect each minute costs similar amounts, so the fuss over 0870 is perhaps misguided. Peter M.

I think DQ is one of the other regulars who goes to events, but in his case more likely things run by ICSTIS about future policy etc. Thanks for the information Sunil. Yes, can see more competition and different pricing would have good and bad aspects... Peter

Sorry, you're wrong, as not all BT lines have a call allowance, when on the standard tariff for that line (check on Home Highway).

It's exactly the same rate for a national call on BT lines without BT Together (and no, call allowance doesn't always apply anyway!)

define "we" - I assume you mean users of alternative carriers or users of BT Together. Readers of newsgroups are likely to be a lot more aware of alterative options to paying standard rate, but there must be several million households for whom the internet and various other carrier services are not being used. PGM

"Peter Morgan - 0870 432 9631" wrote

Another way to think about it:

If he gets the mobile phone solely to accept incoming calls, so that other people can contact him, then each monthly payment can be considered to be

*entirely* line rental. However, the mobile phone company always throw in a few minutes anyway (even if it is only 20 mins per month) - he may not normally use these at all. But if he *did* use them, they would be free!! [There are reasons why people may need a contract rather than pre-pay...]

So that's ONE tariff (BT HH standard) that charges 0870 exactly the same at national rate calls. There are hundreds of others that charge 0870 numbers at much higher rates, usually 2-3 times the "national rate". Or sometimes much more, eg if you're on BT Together an hour long evening national call will cost

6p, an hour long evening 0870 call will cost 2.25 - over 37 times as much!

Having one tariff out of probably several hundred that treats 0870 the same as national rate calls doesn't justify the Oftel approved "charged at national rate" bollox.