A new Nigerian scam

nobody · 2004-06-23T15:06:48+00:00

In my business (specialised industrial products) we have been getting a lot of emails from people in Nigeria wanting to buy our goods, pay by a credit card, and have them delivered to Nigeria. Given it is Nigeria, it is probably a scam using stolen credit card details, but... These people have been to our website and carefully chose the products. However these are products which would be useless to anybody in Nigeria, or most places for that matter. What benefit can these people get by getting the goods? Like everybody else, we would do an online CC authorisation and presumably this would be OK. The amounts are up to £20k. But the bank would want to do a chargeback eventually. What would be our position if we fulfilled such an order innocently? If the country was not Nigeria, and was e.g. Sweden, then we certainly would, given the same circumstances.

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nobody 22 years ago

I don't think most people here have read what I posted.

I said the payment was offered by a CC.

When we request a bank transfer we never hear again, so it cannot be the overpayment scam (though that scam is certainly clever!)

A bank transfer should be irrevocable. It is cleared funds when it arrives, although I do know first hand that banks can take money back out without the account holder being able to do anything about it; the case I saw was where the bank erroneously did the transfer (from us to a supplier in Taiwan) twice, and even though the supplier did not co-operate, his Taiwanese bank (acting on instructions from our UK bank where the error was made) just took the money back out of their account and sent it back to us.

But I am talking about CC payments. I still can't see how an overpayment can be made. The only possible benefit I can see is that the customer (who presumably is using a stolen CC, or intends to refute the transaction and thus force a chargeback) ends up with a load of our products.

The products in question are specialised industrial electronics. Very specialised indeed, and of no use whatever to most people.

I suppose some people like to collect stuff, in the hope of being able to offload it and get *some* money for it...

I am not a racist but Nigerian scams are common knowledge, and their economy is running at a level where they have very little use for advanced electronics which can be used only with very specific (expensive) western made factory automation products.

It is as if somebody ordered 25,000 locking wheel nuts for a 1975 Ford Escort.

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Andy Pandy 22 years ago

Sounds like an urban myth.

What use is the cheque guarantee card number written on the back when most (all?) banks won't guarantee personal cheques over 100? And who keeps enough money in their personal current account for a container full of plasma TV's? Even if the forgery of the cheque isn't spotted it'll almost certainly bounce.

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Laurence Taylor 22 years ago

It could be for a company doing contract work.

The company I used to work for often got orders from Nigeria. Three-quarters of them never reached their destination (or at least were reported as such), with the result that all customers from there were informed that delivery could not be guaranteed and no complaints of non-delivery would be entertained.

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Mike 22 years ago

In message , Alex writes

No idea. The overpayment scam is just one I've heard of but I don't really know how any of them work - other than the "buyer" getting the goods without payment.

I dealt with a similar enquiry a couple of months' ago. The enquiry came by email, apparently from a company in Nigeria, with a yahoo.com "from" address. They asked for a quote for various IT equipment so I quoted some *very* high prices (in the region of 20x what you'd expect) and said that we could only accept payment by TT. They replied they were happy with the quote and wished to proceed but their Government's regulations required them to pay by CC. We declined the order .

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Dave Mayall 22 years ago

One variant is that the scammer orders goods valued at 20,000 and sends a cheque for 30,000.

He explains that he needs to pay his "shipping agent", and asks you to transfer the excess 10,000 to the "shipping agent" (often by Western Union Money Transfer).

They aren't actually interested in getting their hands on the goods, merely the 10,000.

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Roger J. P. Jones 22 years ago

In message , Mike Mann writes

What clever little boy you are Mike -------- Mann (As IF!!)

On an other tread on uk.legal this morning>>>>>:

In message , The Rifleman writes

YES YES YES!

My MP is Tony Baldry who is also a barrister.

On the 1st June this year I applied for a ticket to attend a Midsummer Party at Castle End, Castle Street, Deddington, [My Village] Oxfordshire OX15 OTE on the 14 June enclosing my check for 10 pounds.

On the 7th I received the note below hand written.

NOCA [North Oxfordshire Conservative Association]

Dear Mr Jones

Thank you for your interest in our Midsummer Party on the 11 Jun. Numbers are limited at such events and this year's has proved very popular. Unfortunately, all tickets sold quickly and there no available places left. I am very sorry about that & I return your cheque for 10 pounds. Thanks again for your interest & support.

Yours sincerely

K Lane (Chairman)

As Regard BALDRY his last letter to me 18th September 1989 read:

Dear Mr Jones

Thank you very much for your recent letter enclosing copies of correspondence that you have had with the Prime Minister's Office and others.

You will recall that some time ago these matters were the subject of exhaustive correspondence as between us and a number of meetings. I clearly recall that that correspondence was eventually concluded as between ourselves by my writing to you to say that it did not seem to me that any future correspondence was going to take us any further forward and that is still my position.

Yours

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John Bishop 22 years ago

uk.finance

I don't understand how a credit card company can ask for the money back from the retailer? If you get a large value transaction, and authorise it with the card company in accordance with their procedures, the issue of the card being stolen or cloned is the banks. A stolen card will show up instantly, a cloned card is not the retailers responsibility.

How can the CC company ask for the money back?

John

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Archibald 22 years ago

A fundamental part of any contract with an acquirer is the ability for the acquirer to make a "chargeback" when a transaction is challenged or for many other reasons.

Irrelevant, because in practice it will inevitably lead to a "chargeback" being made.

Irrelevant. The chargeback mechanism effectively transfers most of the risk back to the retailer. Many web-based vendors have to wait 28 days before they get paid anyway further transfering risk.

As above.

Archie

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Christian Bartsch 22 years ago

John Bishop said on 24.06.04:

If he doesn't have a signature and the card was not present at the time of transaction, they can.

Have you ever read the fine print on a MOTO merchant agreement?

Chris

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Jon S Green 22 years ago

And this has to do with the thread's subject precisely HOW?

Jon

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nightjar 22 years ago

So, they sell it to people who want western made factory automation products at a fraction of what you would charge. Assuming the CC details are false, they get the goods for free, so they can afford to sell them at well below market value.

Colin Bignell

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Roger J. P. Jones 22 years ago

CORRUPTION so to point out to intelligent readers of uk.legal how it spreads from uncontrolled judiciary. You may understand when you grow up Jon!!!

Grotto

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Jon S Green 22 years ago

Nope, it read like a thread-hijack attempt; using an extremely tenuous connection (you might as well have argued "Well, this is to do with, um, legal things, too") to attempt to justify propagating an irrelevant and long-winded rant into a thread upon which it had no bearing whatsoever.

If you've anything to contribute on the specific subjects of Nigerian scams or overpayment scams, or do feel free to post something relevant.

As as for "growing up", just how mature is name-calling?

Jon

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Roger J. P. Jones 22 years ago

YES YES YESS!

I am getting old ,and utterly out of touch with the young ones on uk.legal. And I should know how as a man of the world. - I should admit when I have done wrong. -------------- I DO SO!!I

The thing is - NO NO NO!!!!!

Well the fact of the matter is you see I have NO NO NO!!!

Yours An exceedingly nice worldly middle aged man. (Big head Jones)

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Jon S Green 22 years ago

Whilst not for a moment doubting the veracity of your words, I'll admit to being pleased to be called a "young one" months after my 40th birthday.

Jon

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Philip de Cadenet 22 years ago

The original poster mentions Nigeria.

I have a simple way to treat orders from this country in addition to Indonesia and one or two others:

Dear ...

Did your mother not tell you that all credit cards from ....... are stolen?

We only accept bank to bank money transfers, or cash in advance paid by your sister, brother, mother here in the UK (and successfully accepted by our bank) before I even think of shipping goods to your country.

Yes, I do still receive 'kosher' orders from Nigeria, and not just from westerners working out on the oil platforms.

Maybe they respect the honesty of this big white chief.

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