Avoid NATWEST Customer Abuse !

my mum works for the CAB and they get most complaints about Natwest, especially business accounts.

radio-controlled

Phone the newspapers. It seems like they have totally overreacted.

Get there at 8.58? Should be open then!

Come on, get real. A business runs to its own times not a customer with a supposedly more accurate watch - they open and close according to their own clocks. They will have been opening by your times at 8.58 - think how many other customers will have been pleased by the early start. If you don't like their policy (of trusting their own timepieces rather than some chancer who dashes in at closing time) change banks (oh, they've done it for you - no surprise)

I'll bet (in the 2 mins you THOUGHT you had to complete your transactions) you are one of the types who wanted to bank £300 of 2p's, send a postal order to your granny in Australia, and countthe number of pens available for customer use.

Do you do the same at train stations - "Oi porter, that train shouldn't be here yet - back it up a bit!" Try it at your local pub- I'm sure the bouncers will give you another 2 mins drinking up time when you point out the pub clock is out.

Hours of fun pointing out everyones faulty clocks!

For god's sake grow up! And set out for the bank earlier next time.

Well, technically speaking, if the bank advertised that they would be open to 4.30 then they should be, as it forms part of the contract for services which both parties have agreed to. However, being pragmatic about it I think that it isn't reasonable for you to expect them to have absolute pinpoint accuracy in their timekeeping, so a couple of minutes either way would be OK and you should really factor that in when making your trip.

However, I'm still utterly amazed that banks are still shutting at that ridiculous hour in this day and age, but I suppose that's banks for you.

If you don't like the service the best way to hit them is to take your banking elsewhere IMO.

Mark.

In message , Trevor writes

Calm down a bit and dont over react. How can you be sure about your manual synchronicity? You could only be sure if your watch was synchronised to the radio time base, not by YOU synchronising it to clocks that were linked to the radio time base. Time is relative. Does it really matter? Your mistake was to sneak your way in, they wont like that at all. To get a letter from the regional manager and for them to threaten the police then you must have escalated the complaint in a way they didn't like. It looks like you threw a wobbler. They dont like things like that at all either. They will be losing money on you so they dont need to keep you. DUH!

In message , markp writes

No it doesnt. You wont find branch opening hours in the contract of services.

It doesn't have to be written down, it can be implied. If the bank at which the account is registered has a sign outside indicating opening hours, then it is implied that access to services such as those provided by the counter service is possible within those hours. You could argue quite strongly IMO that this is an implied condition in the contract.

Mark.

I doubt it. But it will be an infringement of trading standards, which is bad news for them without necessarily being good news for you.

Indeed, but in what way would it be an infringement of trading standards? Would it mislead the customer into thinking that they can have access to these services when they don't by false advertising? If so, what's the difference between that and an implied condition in the contract of services?

Mark.

In message , markp writes

No chance of that succeeding. Opening hours can be varied at will and do not form part of the 'contract for services which both parties agreed to' to which you refer. Perhaps you can tell us where the bank agreed to this so called 'contract for services'?

D'oh, but not subject to BCT (British Customer Time) definition of the exact hour of opening and closing! They would be free to use their own definition of 'real time' within reason. (they couldn't say it was 4.30 at 4.00 for instance)

For god's sake this is 2 mins discrepancy we are taking about here. Do you think a writ for frustration is going to succeed because a business closed .004% (2 mins in 480) of its working day early!

"Take a Walk" wrote

Ermmm - did you mean 0.4% ?? :-(

Whoops, yes.

In consumer law the advertising used must be clear and not misleading. Having a sign outside the branch indicating opening hours leads the potential customer to believe that counter services, which are an integral part of the overall service, are available within those hours. It is an implied condition, and therefore *by definition* it is not explicitly agreed to, but implictly so. When was the last time you signed an agreement when buying goods from a shop, or made a verbal agreement that you can bring the goods back if they don't match the description? Are you saying there is no contract then??

Mark.

Yes, there is no contract. The right to bring the goods back if unsatisfactory does not stem from contract law, but from the Sale of Goods Act.

Specifically of advertising standards, I suppose.

Yes.

The difference is that you can complain to the Trading or Advertising standards people, and they can put pressure on the traders to clean up their act. There is nothing you can do directly, except complain, but they need take no notice of your complaint and, more importantly, because it is not a matter regulated under the contract you have, you can't sue for damages. The best you could hope for is a voluntary "sorry" payment if you suffered a genuine loss as a result of their closing earlier than you had reason to suspect they would.

Rubbish! The SoGA just 'fills in' those bits not explictly stated in the sale of goods contract. There is always a sale of goods contract, otherwise you couldn't actually prosecute for a breach. Here's the proof, under Implied Terms:

I don't think you've grasped consumer law here. There is a contract of services with implied terms that they meet the description as advertised (this includes when those services would be made available). The consumer has the right to remedy if there is a breach, whether or not they can complain to the Trading Standards. See my other post on SoGA.

Mark.

OK, when you buy goods in a shop there is contract. Since you don't in fact negotiate any terms except price (and even that only vestigially), all terms of the contract are implied. Nevertheless, the terms which are filled-in by the SoGA "stem from" it, not from general contract law. Of course exercising any remedy fro breach of an implied term would be an action under contract law.

Bank opening hours are a little different here. They're usually subject to change without notice. It's not clear that by simply being an account holder there is a contract of service in place which obliges them to keep all their branches open as advertised. Branches being open is not a service you are paying for. Branches being open are merely an opportunity they provide to you so that you can avail yourself of certain services they provide. *Those* services will be subject to the terms of your agreement, the availability of the opportunity may well not be.