Cash Machine Withdraw Fees..

In message , snipped-for-privacy@privacy.net writes

That is the right scale of figure for a bank owned ATM, but way over the top for one of the converted mars bar dispensing machines in mini supermarkets and petrol stations etc.,

That depends on the machine supplier. The bank doesnt always pay.

In message , Miss L. Toe writes

No it isnt.

In message , Adrian Boliston writes

The notes are sorted so that they are acceptable to the machine. This is how the older ATMs used to work that were less intolerant than current machines.

Hmm, I see your point but in reality this wont be the case because the counterfeit utterer would find that the integrity of the chosen machine would vanish almost instantaneously and no-one would use it

In message , Mark Goodge writes

?? But how would the cost of installation and running it justify it?

Not for small shops.

Err,not quite. The megamarkets come to quite peculiar deals with the banks who are quite anxious to have their own machine in a place where it can be guaranteed that 100k+ people will walk past it every day.

I dont mean this to sound insulting but your idea of how it works is rather niaive.

In message , Mark Goodge writes

I dont think you have grasped it.

The 'pay for' machines are for those people who need cash quick and will pay to get it. It is the same reason they are in the 'open all hours' shop and are prepared over the odds for whatever they are buying form the shop.

What do you mean they "need to be new notes"? The RBS machines I've been using have for some time been dispensing notes which are far from new.

Of course up here in the frozen wastes our machines don't dispense BoE notes at all, new or otherwise.

What's true, that it's outrageous to be making a charge, or that they cost the banks nothing?

That's not a flaw. If it's outrageous for one machine to make a charge, it's outrageous for them all, regardless of who "operates" them.

Fortunately for me, I have nevere had the need to use a non-bank machine which makes a charge, so perhaps I'm speaking from a position of naiveté.

My goodness! If 25 years ago is "recent", then it must be possible to count the hairs on your head on the fingers of, well, not very many hands. I've been in this country since 1973 and have always enjoyed free banking here, but for the first few years that may well have been as a result of being in the "student" category.

As far as I'm concerned nobody else but banks should provide them. Isn't there a potential responsibility problem? What if a machine dispenses notes which turn out to be counterfeit?

Not so. I gather some bank-operated machines do charge fees to people using cards issued by other banks not part of their "club".

Hmm. RBS have on several occasions tried to sell me their "Royalties" account as being better than the ordinary IPCA I have at the moment. They must think I'm daft. None of their added value benefits are of any interest to me whatsoever, and (IIRC) the Royalties account has a recurring fee associated with it (which they claim is more than offset by the benefits, but what am I to do with free Haryy Potter badges for the kids I don't have?

Not all are paltry. BoS for instance (say they) pay a reasonable rate, and make a song and dance about it, claiming they pay 30 times (or whatever the figure is) more than their various competitors (which isn't difficult when *they* *do* pay a paltry rate).

Conceded.

Yes.

Untrue, not only from my own experience, but also from your own corroboration of someone's claim (was it the other JB?) that some machines are filled by some big shops to save on fees associated with taking cash to banks.

What? Current machines are less tolerant than older ones? Isn't that negative progress?

Eh? The counterfeit utterer is the customer who proffers fake notes which the checkout chicks (or their mechanical colleagues) fail to unmask. Of what concern is it to him if the machines into which the notes find their way are going to end up being shunned? As long as he gets his £2 worth of goods and £18 genuine change from his fake £20 note, he's happy.

Bu we arent talking about those ATMs, we are talking about the economics of an ATM at, for example, a 7-11 type shop a petrol station, maybe a motorway service station.NOt just isntallation, but staff to manage the operation, repair, insurance and so forth.

However, if one really is lets say 100k (seems high to me) then thats quite lot of transactions to run through it to make profit, which no doubt is why they charge 2 or whaever per transaction.

Ahh! My post was referring to machines issuing BoE only! The use of non new notes reduces the efficiency of the machines and increases the cost because notes have to be hand sorted for quality to be sure they wont jam the machines.

In message , Ronald Raygun writes

They cost the bank nothing

Why? If I decide to set up a business which says 'get your haggis from here but it will cost you a pound more than the shop which is 10 miles away but which is closed at the moment anyway', then I think that is fair enough.

Possibly, but I am in that same class too.....

As I said before...

True!

Yes, Student free banking is older than 'everybody' free banking. The latter was only introduced in the late 70's early 80's.

No! No haggis for the unprepared!!!

And wouldnt your assertion also put a ban on till cashbacks?

Good point, but not relevant to the point as to who should provide the facility. It is no different to any cheque cashing or cash back facility.

Yes, but the cases to which I thnk we are referring, i.e. small ATMs in shops etc., my post is correct.

Strangely, the market behaves differently to you and I! Actually I do have a RBS Gold account but only because (for me) the cost of annual worldwide travel insurance is less than their annual charge

True, BoS are an exception, but none the less it disproves your point.

In message , Tumbleweed writes

I think the contributors to this thread are covering both types of location, albeit inadvertently. You asked for authoritative evidence, and as I have some knowledge in this regard replied to your request but only to the extent of which I have personal knowledge. My post includes any clearing bank badged ATM irrespective of location, so it includes an HSBC machine outside Tesco or at Heathrow.

Why? The machine is the most costly bit!

I think you are confusing things here. Now that most clearers are not charging other banks clients the point of an ATM is not to make a profit buyt to reduce the cost of providing cash to clients

Most Clearing bank ATMs dont. The £2 charge is usually made by private operators.

In message , Ronald Raygun writes

It was the other JB, who is right. But he was referring to the small instore ATMs owned by 3rd parties such as the firm not a million miles away from me in Blackpool. Clearing Bank ATMs (quite a different specification machine) when installed other than at branch locations (and sometime even at branch locations) are filled by security companies, NOT, by shop staff.

In message , Ronald Raygun writes

Yes, but current machines are very much quicker and are far more accurate.

I think we differ on who is uttering the counterfeit utterance. My understanding of the post to which I was replying was that the shop operator could use the ATM as a way of getting rid of dud notes. I assert that if this was done then the integrity of the ATM would be destroyed and people wouldnt use it. If the ATM then fails to be used then the ATM provider will withdraw the machine and the shopkeeper will lose the rental income.

In fact it will make no difference because if the shopkeeper merely passed the dud note back in change then he will lose customers anyway because, as said here many times before, "bad money drives out the good".

That is, the ones who are too dumb to realise they are being fleeced.

Mark

That depends on how much they cost. Is the price going to be justified by the extra custom? That's a business decision which only the shop operator can make.

According to the people who sell these machines, that is the case even for small shops.

Thus demonstrating that there is significant value to the supplier even where the customer isn't charged for use.

Not at all. I'm actually pretty well aware of how it works.

Mark

At 08:58:18 on 13/10/2006, Mark Goodge delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Perhaps it's the ones who would rather pay a little extra than walk a mile or more to the nearest 'free' ATM.