Of course it can.
Which is why the banks usually (not always) refund without the customer having to go as far as the Ombudsman or worse.
One should never make a false claim. That is fraud, and is criminal.
That is just false.
It is less easy for a thief to get hold of the PIN than it is for them to forge a signature, but there are ways they can (and do) use.
Whilst it is true that I was not present when he bought it, I do know that he bought it from Argos and I saw the price advertised in their "special offer" catalogue supplement at the time.
The fact that they know that it happens - or perhaps more importantly that it could be demonstrated to a Court that it happens means that the bank will eventually refund the money.
Catching the crooks is a matter for the police, not the banks.
At 11:01:54 on 19/12/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:
Right...
Yes.
Or the ATM software could have been changed. Or the bank got its act together and programmed the cards correctly. Or one of many things. But, yes. The issuer can send an "issuer script" to a card any time the card goes online. This script can contain commands to change the PIN, verification methods, credit limits, block the card (in the event it was reported lost/stolen for example), etc.
Alex wrote: ...
That's a good one then. I take my C&S card to a store, unaware that it's been reprogrammed by the bank, demand to use a signature (because that's what the bank agreed) and potentially land up in a police station as a fraudster. Great one.
And as ever with these cards there's no audit trail. Not one that /I/ can get my hands on, at any rate. Great one again.
At 16:24:40 on 19/12/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:
Well, even ignoring the fact that it's the bank's card, not yours, I would sincerely doubt that they'd make this type of change without informing you beforehand.
What's wrong with the DPA?
Bitstring , from the wonderful person Alex Heney said
C&S is 100% safe against ATM cash withdrawal, coz there is no PIN so it won't work. Neither is 100% safe against false purchase of goods, in person, or via phone/internet. However disputing a signature (which requires you were present) is a lot easier than disputing a PIN use (which doesn't).
"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote
How do you dispute the argument from the bank, that you acted with an accomplice?
The bank says you handed over your C+Sig card to the accomplice and they forged your signature with your full knowledge & "permission"?
Bitstring , from the wonderful person Tim said
You suggest they catch the crook and see how closely related to you they turn out to be. If they're your wife, they it's a fair cop. if the bank can't establish a relationship, or can't produce the criminal, they are SOL.
No different in fact to the 'strip & sig' cards we have used for many years, except forging a chip is harder than forging a strip.
By that, do you mean that if used for purchases you can't get cashback?
Bitstring , from the wonderful person Jim Hatfield said
Yes, afaik you can't get a cashback since it's a credit card, and someone else already said 'cashback only on debit cards'. I have certainly never been offered that option, except once by accident (the offer was withdrawn as soon as they noticed it was a credit card .. but that was before Chip+anything).
I dunno about you, but I would do practically anything to get away from the Everest Conservatory Salesman loitering in the entrance foyer...
It was *you* was it? Least you could have done was to stay and offer to carry my shopping...
A good man is hard to find...
At 11:29:45 on 19/12/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:
Customer: "I'm not paying it."
Your turn...
At 16:50:45 on 19/12/2005, GSV Three Minds in a Can delighted uk.finance by announcing:
You've already been told that this isn't necessarily true. Just because you haven't come across a card supporting only online PIN and signature (without offline PIN) does not mean they are not being issued in the UK.
In message , Mike Scott writes
This is, of course, fiction, albeit a humorous anecdote. In fact, if the customer had not noticed the loss of the card, then what you say above might happen, but if he still had the card then the above could not happen (yet) with C&P, i.e. 'cloning' & 'skimming' etc., (hitherto the fastest rising types of card fraud) should be substantially reduced if not defeated completely. The above could only have therefore happened with an old style magstripe card.
In message , Mike Scott writes
Obviously that cant be done. But I can prove that C&P is safER because cloning and skimming etc., is very substantially less likely to happen, and those transactions cause the greatest loss.
unfortunately, the new style C&P cards also have an 'old style' magstripe..... ..so the fraud can, (and has) happen, with a C&P card whose magstripe has been cloned.
That wasn't quite what Mae West said . . . :)
Bank: "You already have. The money is not in your account".
If it is a *credit* card, then you do have that option. With a *debit* card, you don't.
At 22:53:14 on 19/12/2005, Alex Heney delighted uk.finance by announcing:
I never use my debit card. So, I'm not paying it. ;-)
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