Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls

change that to "*when* those new ATMs stop accepting magstripes..."

At 21:31:39 on 20/12/2005, Tumbleweed delighted uk.finance by announcing:

And thereby denying cash withdrawals to all those merkin tourists?

hence 'breath holding not advised'.

I have never seen a PIN pad that takes in more than half of the card.

Where have you seen ones that take the whole card in?

I think the majority *have* been converted by now.

I understood that all of them were supposed to be able to read the chips by February, which is not far away.

How can you tell?

In message , Tumbleweed writes

So why 'semantics'?

Because you were being very precise, obver and above what most posters will understand by 'secure', eg the C&P 'system' wasnt compromised even if the card/account was. I dont believe many of the people posting in defence of C&P are making that distinction, they are concerned about the security of their money.

If the account is insecure because the magstripe can be cloned/(altered if necessary) thus bypassing the ultra-secure chip, I doubt they would be happy that the chip cant be broken into, if you can still take money fraudulently.

At 22:45:28 on 20/12/2005, Alex Heney delighted uk.finance by announcing:

I've seen one within the last few weeks in a petrol station. It doesn't take the whole card, but enough that a ring as described above would render it useless. There is a cut-out in the centre allowing retrieval of the card.

Both my credit card companies have told me this. One was prepared to lose my business over that issue. I doubt they would do that if it were easy.

Mark

Without knowing a lot more about the details of chip and pin (for example how the chip communicates with the ATM) then it is not easy to guess the vulnarabilities. However a PIN only provides up to 10000 possibilities which may be easy to crack using brute force techniques.

Mark

At 12:07:47 on 21/12/2005, Mark delighted uk.finance by announcing:

It depends on your definition of easy. It's technically easy to do. It will require a system change. They're unlikely to spend millions changing their system to please one customer. Once they have changed their systems, however, it will be as simple as the phone monkey clicking a check box then your card receiving new instructions next time it goes online.

However! Bear in mind that they also may not want to do this as forgetting your PIN may then require a new card, not just a visit to an ATM.

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote

Exactly as with a PIN. Why can't you see that?

"Tumbleweed" wrote

If someone can break into your house through a window, does that mean you shouldn't bother locking your front door?

"Alex" wrote

Then place the ring elsewhere...

"Alex" wrote

There you go! Put the ring there...

"Mark" wrote

In just 3 attempts?

"Alex" wrote

Why "stop all ATM use"? Simply set the cash withdrawal limit to zero instead! Then you can still unlock your PIN in an ATM...

At 12:48:26 on 21/12/2005, Tim delighted uk.finance by announcing:

And it may or may not interfere with other readers. The point is that there's an ISO standard for the physical dimensions and layout of cards. If you mess about with it, the card is not guaranteed to work when you want it to (just ask Mint).

At 12:55:29 on 21/12/2005, Tim delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Well they could decline all cash withdrawals online, yes. Or get the card to decline transactions where the Terminal Capabilities indicate goods/services are not supported (if the ATM's set up correctly).

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Tim said

Because they'll claim you gave your PIN to someone. You can't do that with a signature. Why can't YOU see that?