Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls

Doesn't matter*, the money's already gone Alex, so the game is, now you have to ask nicely for it back.

Dont hold your breath.

In message , Tumbleweed writes

In the interim transfer period this can happen, but it is the old system that has been compromised, not the C&P system..

Semantics. Try explaining that to some of the posters here who seemingly believe their C&P *card* is invunerable (and no doubt can stop a speeding bullet :-)

All over the world.

In message , Tumbleweed writes

Rubbish. Read my post.

Bitstring , from the wonderful person john boyle said

I'm not even sure that's true, since C&P cards can ALL be used in an ATM (and can currently be cloned/skimmed by just ignoring the chip). Many, maybe even most, Strip type CREDIT cards never had a PIN, so yeah you could clone them, but not for ATM withdrawal use.

Nowhere near most.

All the credit card issuers have been issuing PINs by default for many years now.

Generally, if you have wanted one without a PIN, you have had to ask for it. And I suspect that even then, the PIN would be there, they just wouldn't notify you what it was.

Plus those new ATMs stop accepting magstripes. Plus there is a worldwide standard for all cip reading ATMs. Breath holding not advised.

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote

If they'd accept that for C&Sig, they'd have to accept the same for C&PIN.

So, if the PIN is used and the bank suggests that it was either you, or you in collusion with someone else, then "You suggest they catch the crook and see how closely related to you they turn out to be."

What makes you think it's any different for C&S or C&P ?

I did, your point was that the C&P 'system' wasnt compromised. Thats as maybe, the people posting here who believe that C&P is 'safe' are usually referring to the card / their bank account, not the C&P 'system' as a an abstract entity.

Tumbleweed wrote: ...

Is it not the case that even after any upgrade, ATMs will still have to accept stripe-only cards? This because our trans-pond friends aren't using chip cards, yet expect to use ATMs world-wide. So it'll still be quite easy to clone and edit a stripe from a chip card and carry on much as usual.

Or is my info out of date, or maybe I'm missing something vital?

It looks to me a bit like having a supposedly invulnerable moat/drawbridge and portcullis - and leaving the back door open for the cat. Oh well. :-)

How is the "average person-in-the-street" going to know this and be able to prove this in a court of law?

Mark.

That's _exactly_ why I raised the original question. I asked for ATM withdrawls to be disabled and I was told that it cannot be done!

Mark.

Are you saying that the chip's secret key is just a 4 digit pin number. That makes the whole C&P a complete nonsense IMHO.

Mark.

But presumably the (UK) ATMs are online, so could they not check with the issuer for every mag-stripe only card (which should be a small minority) inserted that it should not also have a chip? Or even just reject UK issued cards without a chip. That way foreign non-chip cards will still work but a UK card with cloned mag-stripe but no chip would be rejected and retained. This would not stop cards with cloned mag-stripes being used abroad, but would make life harder for the cloners and maybe dissuade them from operating in the UK.

The same as any technical issue is proven to the satisfaction of a court - by the use of an expert witness. The fact that the bank know full well that a court would not accept that the card is impossible to use fraudulently unles the holder has been grossly negligent (which is what the bank is likely to say as their initial position) means that it is most unlikely to actually get to a contested hearing.

All they need to do is have the bank software returning a "decline" if the card does not have a chip when it is supposed to according to their records.