Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls

Dec 14, 2005 714 Replies

I don't think it depends on that at all. You can sue on the cheque even if it was a gift. Giving a cheque is supposed to be as safe as giving cash, only more so since a cheque can be voided if stolen, but cash taken in a mugging is gone forever unless you find the thief (and often even if you do).

If you have an enforceable debt, you could sue for that, but it's pretty complicated because you need to provide evidence of the debt. Suing on a cheque is simpler precisely because you do not need to prove any debt.

The thing is that if you're in dispute with a supplier over faulty goods, stopping the cheque seems a quick and easy shortcut to the alternative of going back to the shop and asking for your money back, just knowing they'd be likely to refuse and make things difficult for you, and if you can't face the rigmarole of having to sue them under the Sale of Goods Act, you may be unaware that trying this shortcut is Just Not On. They can still sue you on your cheque and win, even if the goods were in fact faulty, and then you'd still have to sue under SOGA.

At 21:42:45 on 29/12/2005, Alex Heney delighted uk.finance by announcing:

AFAIK you can sue on the cheque regardless.

At 21:38:10 on 29/12/2005, Alex Heney delighted uk.finance by announcing:

FFS. Strange - I thought they'd all made friends now, as every machine says "Link" nowadays, and allows you to withdraw cash from anything (excepting a banana skin).

Isn't that false advertising? Or do they provide only some link services?

Funny, when I was in France I successfully withdrew cash from 5 different credit cards. The VISA system is supposed to work everywhere. Don't tell me now we have chip and pin, everything is incompatible again?

You upset the poor (American-programmed) software :-)

Isn't credit card fraud big business?

At 23:00:48 on 29/12/2005, Peter Hucker delighted uk.finance by announcing:

No. If you have a VISA card you can withdraw cash from any machine displaying the VISA logo. Same for Mastercard etc.

However, there is nothing to stop the owner of the ATM charging you for the service. There is nothing to stop your card issuer for also charging you (although I don't think any of them do these days).

AIUI, Link members do not charge for withdrawals from Link machines. It's nothing to do with card compatibility, although I believe some services (including PIN change, perhaps balance enquiry) may also be restricted to members.

At 23:13:04 on 29/12/2005, Peter Hucker delighted uk.finance by announcing:

So is oil production but you don't see the oil companies trying to extract that last bit of oil from their fields because of the effort involved.

Chip & PIN has made card cloning a lot more difficult to achieve, so the fraudsters are moving to other methods - intercepting cards in the post, online fraud, etc. When these start to hurt the banks (or VISA/Mastercard) enough, measures will be taken to cut down on these as well.

In article , Alex Heney writes

Yes, it's a real bummer for the reasons I gave before, particularly if you are travelling on a Saturday or Sunday and are nowhere near a motorway services

In article , Alex Heney writes

Their attitude to the use of credit is totally different to ours.

Your sarcasm detector failed. :-)

But seriously, if the case ever went to court, it would be decided on the balance of probabilities. Is it more likely that you were negligent or that the thief was able to guess your PIN in 3 attempts? You could have a hard time, especially if the thief guesses it right the first time.

This discussion seems to centre on credit cards, where you can withhold the disputed amount, but it could be a debit card, where the money is taken from your account, and you do not have the option of withholding payment.

A visually impared friend of mine has an interesting issue. He is unable to read the PIN notification as it is light grey on dark grey background. He would be able to use the PIN pads, but his bank appears to be unable to communicate the PIN in a form he is able to read.

you open envelope and tell him the PIN whilst he is at an ATM, he immediately changes it?

Then inform the bank that someone else knew his pin, resulting in the bank sending a new card...

Jim.

You can still take it to the FOS, who would take into consideration the bank's published Banking Code. This says that the bank needs to prove fraud / gross negligence. So they'd still need to prove it to the Ombudsman, even for debit cards...

wrote

Ooops!

wrote

Which is why you take it to FOS instead. They'd look at the bank's own Banking Code and apply that ... which says that the bank needs to prove fraud / gross negligence to pass liability to the consumer.

If the FOS found in the bank's favour then it may not be wise to continue to court (but the consumer could, if they wished).

"Alex Heney" wrote

Who is liable currently, if a C+PIN card is used in a retailer which doesn't support C+PIN and so falls back on Sig?

It's not the card provider's fault that the retailer isn't up-to-speed yet - but do they currently agree to take liability (online) as a "one-off" each time?

Someone else wouldnt know his PIN. They would know what it used to be.

All the cards which did not work in the HBOS machine down the road were Visa cards. As soon as I inserted the card it said "not accepted".

What a palava. I was going to give a telephone operative a piece of my mind when I phoned to reset my locked pin, but I only got a bloody machine!

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