Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls

No.

That is just the uk site. Three are similar sites in most European countries, and you will be able to use it (with PIN) in most of them.

You should still sign your card though, because there are still some places (e.g. B&Q) that have not yet gone over to C&P, and there are more likely to be places in *some* other European countries.

Again, all of Europe will be using the same system, so they will be able to use their cards here. 'merchants will have to sign, as they are not using C&P yet (and knowing them will not use an internationally agreed standard when they do).

Because it is stored on an externally inaccessible part of the chip.

The chip gets the message "Is this the right PIN?", and responds "Yes" or "no". And after three "no" responses in a row it will lock itself, so that no further responses will be made until you unlock it, by entering the correct PIN in an ATM.

Except in most of Europe and some other places, where they are using the same system.

France (who introduced C&P well before anyone else) *did* have a different system, but have now gone over to the same standard.

There is no MUST at all on your part.

But most shops will insist, because if they accept a sig for a PIN enabled card, any fraud become their liability, rather than the issuers.

In message , Alex Heney writes

Fair comment and quite right.

Not bored, irritated.

In article , Alex Heney writes

Wrong. They currently have a mixture of both types.

Most petrol pumps still work on the old system (so UK C&P cards are useless), whereas supermarkets use the new system.

So do the French have dual-chip cards which work both systems? Or would they have to use different cards in the petrol station and supermarket?

In article , Graham Murray writes

No to both your suggestions. French supermarkets don't seem to have difficulty accepting a UK C&P card and processing a transaction using PIN entry as happens in the UK.

In my experience, the transaction is always authorised back to the UK which takes time and authorisation sometimes fails (and not for a lack of available funds). For this reason I always make sure I have about 3 different methods of payment available to me.

It would be a reasonable and logical assumption that the upgraded "new" C&P terminals will also accept the old French "domestic" C&P cards.

I have never yet found a French petrol pump which will accept a UK C&P card and I have tried quite a few because finding an attended pump out of office hours is quite difficult.

A number of times I have had to wait by a pump with Euro's to find a driver who was willing to accept my Euro's and purchase my fuel with his card. Most are happy to do this.

I should explain that most petrol pumps in France seem to revert to remote card operation out of office hours.

Alex Heney's claim that France is now on the new system is simply not true.

Alex wrote: ...

Can you enlarge on that please? I thought you either had to go to an ATM, correct number in hand (OK, in memory :-) ), and have the ATM unblock the card, or ask the bank.

I /assume/ that if while at the ATM you again enter the wrong PIN, the ATM will eat the card. Otherwise a would-be fraudster merely has to wander round some ATMs repeatedly trying to unblock the card.

At 12:00:30 on 29/12/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:

I can expand, but not much. With a nod to English examinations; if you get the PIN right after having got it wrong, the counter is reset.

i.e. PIN retries = 3. Enter incorrect PIN; PIN retries = 2. Enter correct PIN; PIN retries = 3 again.

That's not what you asked though. If the card's blocked then yes, you need to visit an ATM.

At 22:25:27 on 28/12/2005, Peter Hucker delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Merkins, presumably. And they will have to sign, assuming the merchant is willing to accept the liability for any fraud. If not, the merkins will be paying cash.

At 22:25:09 on 28/12/2005, Alex Heney delighted uk.finance by announcing:

The French system was mag stripe & PIN, AFAIK, not C&P. It was also only for debit cards, and it was purely online (since there was no chip).

At 08:17:02 on 29/12/2005, Mr X delighted uk.finance by announcing:

It is true to a similar extent that the UK is on 'the new system'.

Shut up, or I'll force stereograms down your throat!

My heart bleeds [titter].

Just went to the local cash machine (it's either a Bank of Scotland or a Royal Bank of Scotland) and inserted 4 offending cards (with pins I want to change). Egg: "this card is not accepted at this machine". Nationwide: "this card is not accepted at this machine". Capital One: "this card is not accepted at this machine". Barclaycard: "cash, or cash with receipt?"

So no pin changes then..... I thought someone said they worked anywhere?

I'll attempt the Tesco ATM next time I'm there.....

In article , Alex writes

I don't totally agree with you, and I say that in the full knowledge that you know a great deal about C&P! The UK never had it's own "domestic" C&P system running. It has gone directly to implementing the Euro-Flavour C&P although I don't suppose in practice there is a great deal of difference in the respective transitions from a tactical/logistical POV.

It would be more accurate to say that France was in the transitionary phase between it's own "domestic" C&P system and the Euro-Flavour C&P being forced upon it.

If Alex's claim were true then I would have no difficulty in using any of my 4 UK C&P cards in French petrol pumps. I wish I damn well could because unless you are nearby to a motorway services it is very difficult to purchase fuel out of office-hours. Cash is of no use unless you can persuade one of the locals to use his card on your behalf.

In article , Alex writes

You are correct, of course. It is what they still use in their petrol pumps.

The French have a different attitude to credit cards than we do and it is a very serious offence in French Law to dishonour a cheque.

At 14:38:03 on 29/12/2005, Mr X delighted uk.finance by announcing:

France only had it for debit cards, and it was completely different to (and incompatible with) EMV which is why your cards don't work.

But you'd be wrong in supposing that.

It would also be more accurate to say that the UK is in the transitionary phase between its own domestic mag stripe system and EMV. Protocols have had to be expanded, terminals upgraded, etc.

That doesn't follow. France *is* on the new system. The UK is also on the new system. Does that mean you can use EMV cards everywhere in France and the UK? No.

At 14:38:04 on 29/12/2005, Mr X delighted uk.finance by announcing:

As it is in the UK.

Alex wrote: ...

Ooops, thanks. I misread the previous post as implying the PIN had been blocked, not merely a single/double incorrect PIN.

But the implied last part of my query still stands - a fraudster manages to get the PIN blocked on a stolen card: if he's got the patience, what's to stop him visiting various ATMs and entering various PINs at the ATM in an effort to unblock the card? Presumably any one ATM would eventually eat the card, but if he has a pocketful of stolen cards he could try each in turn and move to a new ATM before any are lost to him.