MBNA zero per cent , a warning and hope!

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

In that case, apply online or by post. What's the problem with that?

That's a pretty vacuous distinction. I would rather define "at work" by reference to physical presence at the workplace (however that be defined, for a self-employed person that might need to be pretty broad), and not by reference to any restrictions which might exist about leaving it. Very roughly, "at work" is synonymous with "in the office".

In any case, your last sentence isn't even universally correct. A self employed shopkeeper has plenty of idle moments inbetween serving customers, but is in practice constrained by having to keep the shop open and be there. A self employed plumber has plenty of idle moments between recoding his ill-gotten gains in his account books but still needs to be there waiting for the phone to ring with the next emergency to be dealt with, or risk losing income.

That'd be a lot less traumatic. Still can't be bothered, though.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Then you must either already be "loaded", or already earn more than "several hundred pounds per hour"! Lucky b***** !

Alas, your conclusion could not be further from the truth, on both counts. My income is virtually nil, and although I do have modest reserves, and owe only a token amount on my BTL mortgage, I could not really be described as loaded. But I don't know how *you* would define that. Admittedly I'm toying with the idea of buying another yacht, but then I really would have to sell one of the others.

To say that doing this sort of thing would "earn several hundred per hour" is highly misleading, not only because the actual earning takes half a year not half an hour, but also since it doesn't scale.

I could do it only for half an hour, and then I couldn't do it again for another six months, because there's presumably a limit to how many concurrent £10k credit limits lenders would trust me with. They'd all go on my Equifax record.

"Tumbleweed" wrote

Plus the risk that when you have a lot of 0% card deals running you may prejudice the chances of getting more 0% cards to transfer the wedge to. At one point recently I had 48000 of credit card cash stashed in this way. When I came to renew it, I got a lot of rejections and was only able to roll over 21000 of it.

Still, I made 2.5% of about 45000 for merely filling on 4 or 5 online forms. It must work out at about a thousand quid an hour. Shame I can't earn that every hour....

"mrcheerful ." wrote

The 0% period (with all cards not just MBNA) runs from the date of account opening, which is not transparent to you the customer because it's when they set you up in their systems. In practice it is usually some point between when they write to say you've been approved and when the card turns up. It's almost certain not to be aligned with the statement date.

They will all disclose what the date is, but you have to ask them and then be sure to write it down.

A point to remember is that you can somewhat control the date of account opening. The account will not be opened until you've signed and sent back the paperwork, and they will usually wait about a month to receive it before they give up and simply scratch you from their system. If you are switching a 0% deal from one company to another, therefore, the smart move is to apply in plenty of time then sit on the paperwork long enough to avoid starting the new 0% period too soon, i.e. while the old one is still running.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Then you'd probably be surprised just how many times you *can* do it! [And most card issuers offer limits higher than 10K...]

Anyway, let's think about this with a slightly different example. If you have 20K sitting in a (very poor) a/c earning (say) 2%pa, but you

Would you?

That's not a risk if you *are* keeping the loot in an interest-bearing a/c, because you simply pay it all back. It just means that you've maximised the benefit that you can receive over time!

"John Redman" wrote

;-)

"Tim" wrote

Yes, that's right.

I have to say I don't understand why some people think this not worth doing. To me, it is simply a logical extension of optimising savings accounts. I'd never accept 4.5% gross on a deposit account when I could be getting 5.5% net in an ISA, for example, and the gain from blagging free cash off cards is actually an order of magnitude more than that.

"John Redman" wrote

I'm of the same mind.

"John Redman" wrote

And especially so, if you have an 'offset'-type mortgage -- you get a (usually) good rate on the deposit, and a *tax-free* benefit while the "blagged" loot is offsetting your mortgage!

For instance, your 45K "blagged cash" could have been saving you over 200 (net) interest **each month** -- tax-free -- if deposited into an offset mortgage account....

"Tim" wrote

Unfortunately my mortgage is too large for this to work for me, but don't think I haven't got this under review...:-)

"John Redman" wrote

I don't quite understand - how can a mortgage be "too large" for this to work? Did you mean "too small"? Or do you mean that you'd need to switch lenders, and it is too big compared to your income for a lender to accept an application?

I don't think I could do it at all. Nobody would give be a 10k credit limit card when I have, as I said earlier, virtually no income.

Indeed not, but that's not really the point. It doesn't take just half an hour's effort, but you need (as the OP's example shows) to watch it like a hawk lest through carelessness you end up paying out more interest at the end of the 6 month stint than you earned during it. That's all part of the hassle.

Your example is too extreme, and in that case yes of course I'd bother to move the funds, or alternatively I wouldn't be in the position of having the dosh in so bad an account in the first place.

But suppose instead that I had 20k in each of an ING account at 4.75% and a Halifax websaver at 4.9%. Should I, having noticed that one pays 0.15% more than the other, immediately switch the balance over? It'd be worth £30 a year for perhaps 10 mins work. But the transfer would, I think, need to go via my current account, so the dosh would lose probably some

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Oh, I think it is.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

If you think that, then you need to learn how to use a diary, or any other reminder system! You don't need "to watch it like a hawk" at all - simply make a note in your diary/electronic reminder/alarm system (whatever) then sit back and know that you're making money from very little work.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

If you mean I should have indicated an original a/c with an interest rate of

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Hold on - you'd move from 2% to 5% but *not* from 0% to 5% ?? Eh?

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Think of it as a "float" added by the bank when you first open the a/c (to be repaid later if you close it). That's exactly how a credit card works!

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Well, your example above is more like having a credit card with a 4.75% balance transfer rate - rather than a 0% promo rate. I (basically) said before that it's a "no-brainer" to transfer from the 0% cc to the 5% savings a/c; I never suggested it would always be good even if the CC rate was well over 4% !!

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Of course. Just like most people wouldn't bother trying to use a ** 4.75%

Fiddlefaddle. That just transfers the burden from watching "it" like a hawk to watching your diary like a hawk. It's worse, because you also enslave yourself to the diary to the extent that you mustn't be away on holiday on the crucial date.

You forget the minor problem that I don't *have* funds to move from 0%, and am loath to apply for credit I might not get (because of my lack of income).

No, I mean that offsets only pay out if the savings you offset against the mortgage represent a certain percentage of the mortgage. If you had zero savings, an offset is not a good idea because the rate charged on most offsets is relatively high. If you have a 100k mortgage and 90k in savings, then an offset is a very good idea.

I forget what the exact proportions are, but I think it's about 30%. My main mortgage is a BTL so an offset wouldn't be allowed. My 'secondary' mortgage is in my SO's name; she'd be unable to remortgage at present as she's a SAHM with no income other than what I contribute to pay her mortgage.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Actually, moneysavingexpert.com offers a free reminder service eitehr via email or text message. so you don't even need to remember to consult your diary. you just set it up the reminder as soon as you get approved.

I agree that below a certain threshold it's not worth it. About 20,000 is my personal minimum limit; that earns me 1,000 a year. Less than that and I don't really notice the benefit.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Obviously, the kind of diary that needs "watching" is most useful to someone who already uses it every day, so there's no need for any extra observation of it.

Electronic diaries often have audible reminder systems to avoid needing to "look" all the time.

Some people even use wrist-watch or mobile phone alarms which can be set to any date & time in the future - very useful if you always carry the phone / wear the watch all the time.

But, of course, I'm sure you already knew that...

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Presumably, before going away on holiday you make sure you do all those "little things" that need doing - cancel the milk/newspaper, arrange for someone to water the plants / feed the cat & dog, etc etc...? Just put "paying off the 0% CC" on the same list!

Anyway, you can always set the reminder for a couple of weeks (or more) before it is really necessary to pay it - giving yourself plenty of time to set up the payment. You can even often set up (eg on internet banking) a "payment in advance" which will leave your bank account on a specific date in the future (even do this as soon as you open the 0% CC a/c!).