Property Managers Buildings Insurance Cut?

I stay in a Flat in a Building which has a Factor (Property Manager) they insist that we take their Buildings Insurance at 360 P/A Can i find out how much of a Commision (if any) they receive from the insurers?, they are registered with the FSA .

Many Thanks

ZZ

You may be assuming that you have the right to have your own insurance. This is rarely the case with flats. They are insured as a block. Think what would be the case if you owned the bottom floor flat and the roof of the top floor flat started to leak and they did nothing about it. It would affect you but your insurance wouldn't cover it. Who would be responsible for the floor/ceiling between flats? Those above or those below?

If you've really got a gripe then I suggest you get some quotes and see if you could get it cheaper and put this to the property managers. In any case, why would you, as the purchaser, get any commission? Do you get commission from the firm that insures your car?

Rob Graham

In message , Rob graham writes

Given that 'they' (presumably the managing agents) are registered with the FSA and the likelihood is that they manage many buildings it would seem quite likely that they get a commission, I would guesstimate around the 15% mark. However, if you went direct you would to the same insurer you would not get that commission.

Common? I'd say it's the exception rather than the rule.

Generally each flat owner arranges his own insurance, and insurers have understandings for dealing with those rare claims which affect the whole block, or chunks of it which cover more than one flat.

You mean it is not *generally* in the title deeds. Below you seem to be saying that it *is* in *yours*.

Well, you're stuffed then. But wait. What do the deeds say about who appoints the factors? Could you (the owners' meeting) sack them and appoint someone else? Could you get the title covenant removed? Such things used to be within the power of the feudal superior, but all this feudal stuff has recently been abolished, has it not? There's a fair chance that these guys are bluffing and are trying to milk you for all you're worth before the secret's out that their gravy train has hit the buffers. Historically the factors may have been appointed by the feudal superior, but these no longer exist, so the factors may no longer have any authority. There's no question of you "breaking the law" as in the polis carting you off in irons, but rather someone would have to sue you in the Land Court for violating covenants in the deeds, and the factors may be hard put to come up with valid grounds why *they* should have the right to enforce them.

You're almost right. In principle, AIUI, there is no responsibility, but of course it is in the top floor owner's interest to get roof problems seen to PDQ, and in practice responsibility for sharing the cost is written into the titles as what I believe are called "break off writs", which allow the top floor owners to recover shares of costs from the other flats. (Defective titles can lead to nightmare scenarios in which the top floor folk are unable to recover costs and end up having to pay the lot). This is usually not on an equal shares basis but on the basis of proportion of rateable values, which means whatever RVs last were just before domestic rates were abolished in favour of the poll tax.

The interesting thing here is that blocks of flats with shops at ground level have the advantage that the shops' RVs are usually disproprtionately high, and so the shop owners generally bear the lion's share of roof repair costs.

I've never come across this separate common parts insurance, it's usually hidden as implied cover in the normal insurance. What I *have* come across, though, is separate electricity bills for the buzzer system, and possibly this also pays for stair lighting.

I should have explained that this Property is in Scotland which has a high proportion of Tenement Properties the Building is Private and each Flat is owned by the occupier, it is Common to have a Factor (Property Manager) whom takes a fee (52PA Per Flat) to manage the flats. The problem is 2 fold any work being done is carried out by a Cartel of Companies and not necessarily at the most competitive rate and when they F**K things up they come out again to fix the F**K up you pay again if you complain they (the factor) just make an excuse for the re-visit and then bill you threatening court action if you do not pay.

It is not law or indeed in the Title Deeds that you must have a Factor you can do it yourself get quotes for work pay the Tradesman then split the Bill 8 ways (8 Flats) but then have the hassle of people paying there share which you've paid up front to the said tradesman . However the factor charges 360 PA per flat Buildings Insurance I checked with Direct Line and they quoted 110 PA (Some 250PA Cheaper) myself and some neighbours changed over to Direct Line which the Factor Ok'd and we paid 9PA common insurance per flat (110 Buildings Ins Per Flat + 9PA Common Ins Per Flat)

The Factor then stated this is an error you must insure through ourselves stating we are breaking the Law having your own insurance quoting from the Title Deeds "The flats within said building shall be insured with a common policy with the Factor" however the next section which was conveniently faint on the Factors photocopy and to which i obtained a clear copy states "The flats shall be insured under a common policy with an insurance company chosen by the owners at a meeting of the owners and said Factor"

So since the Factors are being so heavy handed about the Insurance i feel they must get a Fair Cut of the Insurance Fee the excuse for it being some

250 PA more is because they insure lots of Flats and they buy a blanket policy so it must be the only thing in life you buy in bulk and pay more for - AS IF

So 8 Flats pay 360 PA each = 2880 when the could just be paying 8 x

110+9 = 952 seems strange to me.

Think you will find that under Scottish Law within the Title Deeds all Flats in a Building share equal financial responsibility for the roof and that is why we pay (or attempt to ) 9PA common buildings insurance i.e. not the individual flats but the common parts of building stairway roof etc...

Many Thanks

ZZ

Other Neighbours in the same block off Tenements have sacked the same Factor after being pissed off with overcharging and overpriced insurance they simply give them written notice that they are sacked and either appoint another Factor or self Factor but as i stated if you self Factor you have to pay someone to do work and recover each share from each flat owner and as we know 99% people pay bills but the other 1 % blood from a stone etc....how effective self factoring is is dictated by your neighbours.

My Brother works in an Estate Agents and on one rare occasion there was a problem with a flat they were marketing lots of people wanted to buy but yonks of years ago when title deeds had an amendment made to give responsibility for the roof to not just the two top flats but to *ALL* flats in the building, this property seemed to have been missed out and this was spotted during the Solicitors Conveyancing and held up the sale.

We also receive a bill for stair lighting electricity each year The whole crux of my posting was that i think it is obvious that these C***S are crooks and are roping in a good CUT from the insurance and this is what i was trying to establish if i could find this out with them being registered with the FSA and see how much they receive, think about it 360 PA per flat x 8 Per Building = 2880 then how many buildings in the city do the manage? possibly around 900-1200 taking around 900 that gives 2880 x

900 = 2592000 quite a bit of Insurance Sales eh?

Many Thanks ZZ