Quicken, Vista, and THE Administrator

Is there anyone out there that is running Quicken using Vista,as a non-admin user, and running Quicken without using "Run As" "administrator"?
If so, can you offer any comments about how Quicken functions under those those conditions?
Specifically: Are you aware of any Quicken specific problems that occur when you fail to "run as administrator" when you run Quicken?
Are you aware of any problems running Quicken under Vista as a Windows non-admin user?
Can you offer any other observations that you believe are linked to Quicken running under Vista and not running as "THE" administrator? Or not running as a Windows user with admin priveledges.
[Fot those who are not aware: "THE" administrator in Windows is not (or virtually never) the same as a Windows user that has "administrator" priveledges. I believe this is true for XP and Vista.]
Many thanks.
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes.
No.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
XS11E wrote:

Thanks.
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

John,
After a long exchange (on Vista) amongst you, RC and Margaret many, many, many moons ago, I finally got a new PC with Vista Ultimate 32- bit. I know that RC runs 64-bit, but I found a lot of drivers I used under Win2K didn't have Vista 64-bit versions, and so I stuck with the 32-bit.
Installation under admin rights of Quicken Deluxe 08 went smoothly. Use as non-admin user has been without incident.
Vista doesn't allow data in the program folders (I am given to understand) so I have Q data under C:/Users/username/Documents/ Quicken. Ever since the first LAN I installed at work [NovelI OS on servers and DOS on clients] I always had users data files under a DATA root directory to make program updates and data backups easier., I never changed that on my personal computer from DATA to the "My Documents" structure that Microsoft introduced somewhere along the string of Windows products. As I am also a little paranoid (multiple users on same machine) I don't use the C:/Users/Public/nnnnnn arrangement. That's not because the information is confidential, but, rather, the others might erase/overwrite something by mistake.
What moved you to ask, anyway? Are you experiencing something that doesn't match expectations or how things used to work?
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Al wrote:

Thanks for the feedback.
I decided to ask because I have recently noticed that posters in the Quicken Forums are repeatedly being told to "Run as administrator" when they run Quicken under Vista (and to run as a user with admin rights, as I recall), and I suspected that wasn't necessary.
I don't have Vista, so I have to ask others when I run into a situation likes.
My guess is that many of the users who have Vista and are experiencing problems they didn't see with XP, are running into Vista's file access restrictions ... and not getting very good advice for their situation.
Thanks again.
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
John Pollard wrote:

Should read: "I don't have Vista, so I have to ask others when I run into a situation like this."
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I agree, do you know if any have reported running as administrator fixed the problem? I can't understand why it would unless.....
Here's one scenario:
I installed Quicken and ran it using the default account created by Vista which does have limited administrator privileges. When you asked your question, I created a LUA to test it, booted into the LUA and started Quicken. I got the screen asking me to open an existing account or create an account or restore a backup. Quicken could not find the backups it had created running with the default account so I restored the backup I keep on a flash drive and all worked fine and I posted the results here but....
Maybe the "no problem" wasn't correct? If someone installed and ran Quicken from the default account he/she/it wouldn't be able to access the data from a LUA created later and the advice to run as administrator would solve that problem?
BTW, that's not the best advice IMO, better advice might be to log on as administrator, back Quicken up to a different area accessable to all users and then log off, back on a LUA and Quicken should then find and open the files.
NOTE: I haven't tried it but if Quicken were installed from the LUA I think all accounts with higher privileges could access the data.
Later note, the above is correct, I just logged on as administrator and was able to open Quicken data from the default account. I had to point Quicken to it but it opened once I did.
Conclusion: the initial install of Quicken should be in the account with the lowest privileges.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
XS11E wrote:

I don't recall anyone posting back ... so I assumed that those who got the advice found it worked or, at least, some would have reported it did not help.
But I am working from memory on this, and that memory isn't as good as it once was.

Yes, I suspect it would "solve" the problem, but I didn't think that was likely to be the best solution. I prefer what you suggest below.

Were you logged on as a user with admin rights, or as THE administrator?

Thanks; good stuff.
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The Administrator, I long ago activated the hidden "real" administrator account.

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi, John.
As I've said a few times in different places, it seems to me that most (not all) users who don't like Vista haven't actually used Vista. They've been warned off by horror stories from other users and have not tried Vista themselves. Or they've tried it for less than a week, while clinging ferociously to their WinXP mindset and griping (or even panicking) whenever Vista does not react as they are accustomed to WinXP behaving. During that first week, Vista is busy with background tasks, such as downloading Updates and Indexing files on the hard drive, and the User is continually installing applications and tweaking Vista in ways that require Administrator status. During this time, yes, Vista seems very intrusive. Newsgroups have many testimonials, though, from users like me who stuck with Vista through the first month and now would not dream of going back. Not everybody, of course. Some users have legitimate reasons for preferring WinXP and others simply refuse to invest the time and effort to learn new things, even when the new things are better.
With that said, let me address a couple of specific points in your query.
First, yes, Vista does enforce the long-overlooked rule that DATA files should NOT be mixed with PROGRAM files. The C:\Program Files folder was introduced so long ago that I can't recall when; was it in Win9x? Or Win2K? But the idea was that the .exe, .dll and other executable files would be installed in subfolders under that Program Files folder, and that all data files to be used by a program would be created in a folder somewhere else on the hard drive. Many (most?) application developers - including Intuit - ignored this commonsense rule and continued putting date files into the program folders. Even as late as WinXP (I think), Intuit created the Quicken data file as C:\Program Files\QDATA.QDF, by default. And, while Microsoft strongly urged developers to follow the new rule, the operating system did not actually enforce it - until Vista.
In Vista, when Quicken tries to create a new data file in Program Files, Vista balks and insists that the new file go elsewhere. Typically, the user doesn't even realize that the data file has gone into his/her own Documents file, because Vista quietly redirects the location, typically to C:\Users\RC\Documents\Quicken (your folder will use your own Username instead of my RC, of course). For a single-user computer this might seem unnecessary, but for multiple users, it protects RC's private data from other users' prying eyes. The only "other" user who can see into C:\Users\RC subfolders is THE Administrator, who must furnish the proper credentials to access everything on that computer. Even another member of the Administrators group must pass this additional checkpoint to see RC's private data. (Deeper security would require encryption or other measures, but I don't know anything about that subject.)
Program Files is not the only protected area in Vista. The Root of the System Drive (typically C:\) is also off-limits unless an Administrator insists. To store files there, we must create a subfolder and put our files in that; we can put some text in C:\MyTexts\some.txt, for example, but not in C:\some.txt.
An additional folder shows up when we install 64-bit Windows, either WinXP x64 or Vista x64: C:\Program Files (x86). (When I first saw this new folder after installing WinXP x64 about 4 years ago, I assumed was for 64-bit applications. Much later I learned that "x86" means 32-bit code written for the x86 family of Intel processors, from the 8086 in the IBM AT to the 80486 and Pentium. By then, I had already hopelessly jumbled my 32-bit and 64-bit applications in the two Program Files and Program Files (x86) folders.) Both 64-bit versions of Windows put all 32-bit applications (including Quicken) into Program Files (x86) and the (so-far very few) 64-bit applications into Program Files so they can be matched with the proper 64-bit DLLs and other support files. (Users who dual-boot 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems must be VERY careful to get any shared applications into the right folders!)
While I did fall into the x86 trap, the "no data files in Program Files" caused me no problem because of my legacy arrangement bypassed that problem. As I've reported here several times, way back in the early '90s, when I first started using "Quicken for Windows", it was installed into C:\QuickenW. Later, when I started dual-booting, I put that folder onto my Drive E: so that it could be accessed by both Win95 and WinNT4. Through successive generations of both Quicken and Windows, I've continued to install Quicken into E:\QuickenW, rather than into Program Files. Vista Ultimate x64 still uses E:\QuickenW for both the application and my data files without objection. I have full access to my data from my usual "RC" account, but when I log in as "Charlie", my 5-year-old grandson who is the only other User, I can run Quicken but I'm locked out of my data unless I invoke my Administrator credentials.
Because I'm just one guy with one computer, I've never bothered to learn much about Users and security and passwords and permissions. So I don't know much about the fine points of installing and running Quicken. When I simply insert the Q2008D CD and run Setup from my usual default RC account, it just works. And every day, when I click the icon in Quick Launch, it just loads my data and runs. ;<)
John, you and other long-time regulars here may recall that I did have some installation trauma installing Quicken several times during the long Vista beta period. Since Vista "went gold" in November 2006, though, I've had no such problems installing Quicken several more times.
RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
R. C. White wrote:

Can you comment on the procedure for allowing two (or more) Vista Limited User Accounts to access the same Quicken file? In XP, I probably would just designate the folder with the Quicken data as "shared" (assuming I didn't mind any other user accessing the data). Does Vista have something comparable?
And what if one wanted to allow more than one Vista Limited User access to the same Quicken data ... but not all Vista Limited Users?

Thanks RC; good info as usual.
I hope this thread may serve as a reference - along with our other Vista threads - for those Vista users having problems with Quicken. Especially those who don't think they should have to run Quicken "as administrator".
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Multiple ways. One is to move the data file to an area not reserved to one user, another, once the data file is created, alter permissions to allow access to everyone.
R. C. White's idea to use a separate partition for Quicken files is a good one, I use a separate partition for Xnews for newsgroups, for T'bird for email, etc.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

John,
re: your question on multiple users having access to one Q file set on one PC, the following are the ways I can see:
1) Use a separate partition or drive
2) Use Vista's Users/Public/nnnnn arrangement, as, by default, any user can see and play around with what's under Users/Public. (THIS IS THE SIMPLEST METHOD, as it was designed to do just what you ask.)
3a) Have User A explicitly share his/her entire Users/User A/nnn with User B (ouch!) 3b) Have User A explicitly share his/her Quicken Users/User A/nnn with User B (i.e., Users/User A/Documents/Quicken) 3c) Have User A explicitly share his/her Quicken Users/User A/nnn with Everyone (shivers starting down my back) 3d) Have User A explicitly share his/her entire Users/User A/nnn with Everyone (AAAAGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!)
Subsets of 3a and 3b have User A explicitly sharing with multiple users, i.e., User B, User C, User E, but not User D.
Under this arrangement I would not even DREAM of thinking of whispering the suggestion that User A, using Quicken, momentarily relinquish control - by electing Start>Switch User - then having User B sign on and use Quicken.
AL .
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Al wrote:

When I asked, I was thinking specifically of husband and wife, each having a separate Windows user account, both wanting to assist in maintaining the family's financial data in a single Quicken data fileset ... but not wanting their child - who has a third Windows user account - to have access to the Quicken data. It seems your "3b" would allow that. Right?
[If User X were to open the Quicken fileset, then User Y tried to open that same fileset while User X still had it open, the second open attempt should fail (Quicken itself prevents more than one open of a given fileset). So I don't see a problem with an attempt at simultaneous file opening. I assume husband and wife would do their maintenance at different times; but if one did not realize the other had the fileset open, they would find out when they tried to open it and Quicken wouldn't let them.]
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

John, you are right on both counts.
A) Option 3b would allow spouses to share maintenance duties while preventing children/others from doing the filesets ill.
B) I ACTUALLY tried the double opening and couldn't. The paranoia in previous postings seems to have come straight out of Bloom County's anxiety closet. I should have tried it first before writing something that could confuse others. You are very good at this "try it out before answering" routine and I should have taken notes.
I can imagine your adding another "3x5 card" to your Quicken reference "Rolodex".
AL .
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

...and another thing. I am sharing a Q set from my PC with my wife's laptop through our home network, allowing HER to maintain, etc. and me to do same when using her machine.
I have NOT tried out opening Q set from desktop and from laptop to see if use is denied to whomever got there second. I seem to recall a number of threads focusing on Q and home networks, and think I saw folks commenting on possibility/danger of Qkn set being modified by two users at once. Discussion then centered on Qkn not being network- aware.
Maybe that was before Q08.
AL
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Al wrote:

Intuit has repeatedly said that accessing a Quicken fileset over a network definitely increases the chances of introducing file corruption. I believe that Intuit maintains that evaluation for all their versions, including Q2008.
There are definitely users who have reported accessing Quicken files over a network without experiencing any problems; and I have never found any reason to disagree with them.
I, for one, have not had any compelling reason to make my Quicken data accessible over a network, so I can not offer any real-life observations on the subject.
--

John Pollard
First initial underscore Last name at mchsi dot com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi, XS11E.
To clarify: the key is not necessarily to use a separate partition. A separate folder is sufficient.
My Drive E: is a legacy from 10 years or so ago when I first started dual-booting. At that time, I put Win95 in Drive C:, Applications in Drive D: and Data in Drive E:, then added Drive F: for WinNT4 at the end of the drive so that I could delete it when I finished learning about NT. Then I got a second HD, then Win98 replaced Win95...and then Win2K came along. I never had the time and energy to rationalize and re-organize all the partitions and so they just "grew like Topsy". Disk Management appeared in Win2K and made the job of creating and deleting partitions and "drive" letters much easier, and I soon realized that there was no need to stick with C:, D:, E:, etc., but I could assign any letters I want to any drive (except for the System and Boot drives - which are reversed from what most users think!) So my DVD burners are V: and W:, my ReadyBoost USB drive is R:, my SanDisk card reader for photos is S: - and so on. My Mail Store files somehow wound up on Drive H:. But, through it all, my Data drive has kept the letter E:. It is only about 60 GB of a 300 GB RAID1 mirror now, and QuickenW is only one of a few dozen folders, including Downloads, Rotary, old OE Store Folders, Work and Excel documents - and my older Program Files and Program Files (x86) folders, which should be emptied and deleted as soon as I get A Round Toit.
To make all this re-partitioning easy, I've usually partitioned each HD as a single small primary partition and a large extended partition divided into several logical drives. Only the startup files go into the bootable primary partition, and each single operating system (WinXP x86, WinXP x64, Vista x64, etc.) is installed into a separate logical drive. That way, I could delete a logical drive when I finished with a Vista beta, for example, without deleting applications that I might have been running with that operating system. The multiple primary partitions allow me to make each HD bootable so that I can boot from Drive 1 or Drive 2 if Drive 0 is corrupted.
But, as I told John, I'm still the only user, so I haven't learned much about allowing multiple LUAs to access the same Quicken file.
RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not for me, the separate partition allows me to format C: and re- install an OS w/o losing any mail or newsgroup info. I've never needed to use Quicken on a different partition because it's so easy to restore from the flash drive/CDRW that I use for backup (yes, both! I'm a belt and suspenders guy when it comes to Quicken data. It's backed up other places also such as an HP Personal Media drive.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hi, John.

I already begged off on the permissions/users sort of questions. ;-}
I'm glad Al and XS11E shared their knowledge on these topics.
The only time I've come close to this subject is in the dual-booting context. By booting into WinXP Pro, for example, and installing Quicken 2008 Deluxe into E:\QuickenW, and then rebooting into Vista Ultimate x64 and installing Quicken 2008 Deluxe AGAIN into the same E:\QuickenW, I can enter transactions while in either OS and read them when rebooted into the other OS. But Vista thinks I'm the same User\RC who installed Quicken into E:\QuickenW while booted into Vista, so it doesn't object when User\RC wants to access that application and data file. And WinXP thinks I'm the RC who installed Quicken while running WinXP. Neither OS really knows the other exists, so each thinks I'm the only user on this hardware. Neither thinks that User\Charlie is trying to read my secrets.
That is NOT the same kind of scenarios that you and Al are discussing and wondering about.
RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

BeanSmart.com is a site by and for consumers of financial services and advice. We are not affiliated with any of the banks, financial services or software manufacturers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.

Tax and financial advice you come across on this site is freely given by your peers and professionals on their own time and out of the kindness of their hearts. We can guarantee neither accuracy of such advice nor its applicability for your situation. Simply put, you are fully responsible for the results of using information from this site in real life situations.