Is there anyone out there that is running Quicken using Vista,as
a non-admin user, and running Quicken without using "Run As"
If so, can you offer any comments about how Quicken functions
under those those conditions?
Specifically: Are you aware of
any Quicken specific problems that occur when you fail to "run
when you run Quicken?
Are you aware of any problems running Quicken under Vista as a
Windows non-admin user?
Can you offer any other observations that you believe are linked
running under Vista and not running as "THE" administrator? Or
not running as a Windows user with admin priveledges.
[Fot those who are not aware: "THE" administrator in Windows is
not (or virtually never) the same as a Windows user that has
"administrator" priveledges. I believe this is true for XP and
After a long exchange (on Vista) amongst you, RC and Margaret many,
many, many moons ago, I finally got a new PC with Vista Ultimate 32-
bit. I know that RC runs 64-bit, but I found a lot of drivers I used
under Win2K didn't have Vista 64-bit versions, and so I stuck with the
Installation under admin rights of Quicken Deluxe 08 went smoothly.
Use as non-admin user has been without incident.
Vista doesn't allow data in the program folders (I am given to
understand) so I have Q data under C:/Users/username/Documents/
Quicken. Ever since the first LAN I installed at work [NovelI OS on
servers and DOS on clients] I always had users data files under a DATA
root directory to make program updates and data backups easier., I
never changed that on my personal computer from DATA to the "My
Documents" structure that Microsoft introduced somewhere along the
string of Windows products. As I am also a little paranoid (multiple
users on same machine) I don't use the C:/Users/Public/nnnnnn
arrangement. That's not because the information is confidential, but,
rather, the others might erase/overwrite something by mistake.
What moved you to ask, anyway? Are you experiencing something that
doesn't match expectations or how things used to work?
Thanks for the feedback.
I decided to ask because I have recently noticed that posters in
the Quicken Forums are repeatedly being told to "Run as
administrator" when they run Quicken under Vista (and to run as
a user with admin rights, as I recall), and I suspected that
I don't have Vista, so I have to ask others when I run into a
My guess is that many of the users who have Vista and are
experiencing problems they didn't see with XP, are running into
Vista's file access restrictions ... and not getting very good
advice for their situation.
I agree, do you know if any have reported running as administrator
fixed the problem? I can't understand why it would unless.....
Here's one scenario:
I installed Quicken and ran it using the default account created by
Vista which does have limited administrator privileges. When you asked
your question, I created a LUA to test it, booted into the LUA and
started Quicken. I got the screen asking me to open an existing
account or create an account or restore a backup. Quicken could not
find the backups it had created running with the default account so I
restored the backup I keep on a flash drive and all worked fine and I
posted the results here but....
Maybe the "no problem" wasn't correct? If someone installed and ran
Quicken from the default account he/she/it wouldn't be able to access
the data from a LUA created later and the advice to run as
administrator would solve that problem?
BTW, that's not the best advice IMO, better advice might be to log on
as administrator, back Quicken up to a different area accessable to all
users and then log off, back on a LUA and Quicken should then find and
open the files.
NOTE: I haven't tried it but if Quicken were installed from the LUA I
think all accounts with higher privileges could access the data.
Later note, the above is correct, I just logged on as administrator and
was able to open Quicken data from the default account. I had to point
Quicken to it but it opened once I did.
Conclusion: the initial install of Quicken should be in the account
with the lowest privileges.
As I've said a few times in different places, it seems to me that most (not
all) users who don't like Vista haven't actually used Vista. They've been
warned off by horror stories from other users and have not tried Vista
themselves. Or they've tried it for less than a week, while clinging
ferociously to their WinXP mindset and griping (or even panicking) whenever
Vista does not react as they are accustomed to WinXP behaving. During that
first week, Vista is busy with background tasks, such as downloading Updates
and Indexing files on the hard drive, and the User is continually installing
applications and tweaking Vista in ways that require Administrator status.
During this time, yes, Vista seems very intrusive. Newsgroups have many
testimonials, though, from users like me who stuck with Vista through the
first month and now would not dream of going back. Not everybody, of
course. Some users have legitimate reasons for preferring WinXP and others
simply refuse to invest the time and effort to learn new things, even when
the new things are better.
With that said, let me address a couple of specific points in your query.
First, yes, Vista does enforce the long-overlooked rule that DATA files
should NOT be mixed with PROGRAM files. The C:\Program Files folder was
introduced so long ago that I can't recall when; was it in Win9x? Or Win2K?
But the idea was that the .exe, .dll and other executable files would be
installed in subfolders under that Program Files folder, and that all data
files to be used by a program would be created in a folder somewhere else on
the hard drive. Many (most?) application developers - including Intuit -
ignored this commonsense rule and continued putting date files into the
program folders. Even as late as WinXP (I think), Intuit created the
Quicken data file as C:\Program Files\QDATA.QDF, by default. And, while
Microsoft strongly urged developers to follow the new rule, the operating
system did not actually enforce it - until Vista.
In Vista, when Quicken tries to create a new data file in Program Files,
Vista balks and insists that the new file go elsewhere. Typically, the user
doesn't even realize that the data file has gone into his/her own Documents
file, because Vista quietly redirects the location, typically to
C:\Users\RC\Documents\Quicken (your folder will use your own Username
instead of my RC, of course). For a single-user computer this might seem
unnecessary, but for multiple users, it protects RC's private data from
other users' prying eyes. The only "other" user who can see into
C:\Users\RC subfolders is THE Administrator, who must furnish the proper
credentials to access everything on that computer. Even another member of
the Administrators group must pass this additional checkpoint to see RC's
private data. (Deeper security would require encryption or other measures,
but I don't know anything about that subject.)
Program Files is not the only protected area in Vista. The Root of the
System Drive (typically C:\) is also off-limits unless an Administrator
insists. To store files there, we must create a subfolder and put our files
in that; we can put some text in C:\MyTexts\some.txt, for example, but not
An additional folder shows up when we install 64-bit Windows, either WinXP
x64 or Vista x64: C:\Program Files (x86). (When I first saw this new
folder after installing WinXP x64 about 4 years ago, I assumed was for
64-bit applications. Much later I learned that "x86" means 32-bit code
written for the x86 family of Intel processors, from the 8086 in the IBM AT
to the 80486 and Pentium. By then, I had already hopelessly jumbled my
32-bit and 64-bit applications in the two Program Files and Program Files
(x86) folders.) Both 64-bit versions of Windows put all 32-bit applications
(including Quicken) into Program Files (x86) and the (so-far very few)
64-bit applications into Program Files so they can be matched with the
proper 64-bit DLLs and other support files. (Users who dual-boot 32-bit and
64-bit operating systems must be VERY careful to get any shared applications
into the right folders!)
While I did fall into the x86 trap, the "no data files in Program Files"
caused me no problem because of my legacy arrangement bypassed that problem.
As I've reported here several times, way back in the early '90s, when I
first started using "Quicken for Windows", it was installed into
C:\QuickenW. Later, when I started dual-booting, I put that folder onto my
Drive E: so that it could be accessed by both Win95 and WinNT4. Through
successive generations of both Quicken and Windows, I've continued to
install Quicken into E:\QuickenW, rather than into Program Files. Vista
Ultimate x64 still uses E:\QuickenW for both the application and my data
files without objection. I have full access to my data from my usual "RC"
account, but when I log in as "Charlie", my 5-year-old grandson who is the
only other User, I can run Quicken but I'm locked out of my data unless I
invoke my Administrator credentials.
Because I'm just one guy with one computer, I've never bothered to learn
much about Users and security and passwords and permissions. So I don't
know much about the fine points of installing and running Quicken. When I
simply insert the Q2008D CD and run Setup from my usual default RC account,
it just works. And every day, when I click the icon in Quick Launch, it
just loads my data and runs. ;> 32-bit.
I don't recall anyone posting back ... so I assumed that those
who got the advice found it worked or, at least, some would have
reported it did not help.
But I am working from memory on this, and that memory isn't as
good as it once was.
Yes, I suspect it would "solve" the problem, but I didn't think
that was likely to be the best solution. I prefer what you
Were you logged on as a user with admin rights, or as THE
Thanks; good stuff.
Can you comment on the procedure for allowing two (or more)
Vista Limited User Accounts to access the same Quicken file? In
XP, I probably would just designate the folder with the Quicken
data as "shared" (assuming I didn't mind any other user
accessing the data). Does Vista have something comparable?
And what if one wanted to allow more than one Vista Limited User
access to the same Quicken data ... but not all Vista Limited
Thanks RC; good info as usual.
I hope this thread may serve as a reference - along with our
other Vista threads - for those Vista users having problems with
Quicken. Especially those who don't think they should have to
run Quicken "as administrator".
Multiple ways. One is to move the data file to an area not reserved to
one user, another, once the data file is created, alter permissions to
allow access to everyone.
R. C. White's idea to use a separate partition for Quicken files is a
good one, I use a separate partition for Xnews for newsgroups, for
T'bird for email, etc.
re: your question on multiple users having access to one Q file set on
one PC, the following are the ways I can see:
1) Use a separate partition or drive
2) Use Vista's Users/Public/nnnnn arrangement, as, by default, any
user can see and play around with what's under Users/Public. (THIS IS
THE SIMPLEST METHOD, as it was designed to do just what you ask.)
3a) Have User A explicitly share his/her entire Users/User A/nnn with
User B (ouch!)
3b) Have User A explicitly share his/her Quicken Users/User A/nnn with
User B (i.e., Users/User A/Documents/Quicken)
3c) Have User A explicitly share his/her Quicken Users/User A/nnn with
Everyone (shivers starting down my back)
3d) Have User A explicitly share his/her entire Users/User A/nnn with
Subsets of 3a and 3b have User A explicitly sharing with multiple
users, i.e., User B, User C, User E, but not User D.
Under this arrangement I would not even DREAM of thinking of
whispering the suggestion that User A, using Quicken, momentarily
relinquish control - by electing Start>Switch User - then having User
B sign on and use Quicken.
When I asked, I was thinking specifically of husband and wife,
each having a separate Windows user account, both wanting to
assist in maintaining the family's financial data in a single
Quicken data fileset ... but not wanting their child - who has a
third Windows user account - to have access to the Quicken data.
It seems your "3b" would allow that. Right?
[If User X were to open the Quicken fileset, then User Y tried
to open that same fileset while User X still had it open, the
second open attempt should fail (Quicken itself prevents more
than one open of a given fileset). So I don't see a problem
with an attempt at simultaneous file opening. I assume husband
and wife would do their maintenance at different times; but if
one did not realize the other had the fileset open, they would
find out when they tried to open it and Quicken wouldn't let
John, you are right on both counts.
A) Option 3b would allow spouses to share maintenance duties while
preventing children/others from doing the filesets ill.
B) I ACTUALLY tried the double opening and couldn't. The paranoia in
previous postings seems to have come straight out of Bloom County's
anxiety closet. I should have tried it first before writing something
that could confuse others. You are very good at this "try it out
before answering" routine and I should have taken notes.
I can imagine your adding another "3x5 card" to your Quicken reference
...and another thing. I am sharing a Q set from my PC with my wife's
laptop through our home network, allowing HER to maintain, etc. and me
to do same when using her machine.
I have NOT tried out opening Q set from desktop and from laptop to see
if use is denied to whomever got there second. I seem to recall a
number of threads focusing on Q and home networks, and think I saw
folks commenting on possibility/danger of Qkn set being modified by
two users at once. Discussion then centered on Qkn not being network-
Maybe that was before Q08.
Intuit has repeatedly said that accessing a Quicken fileset over
a network definitely increases the chances of introducing file
corruption. I believe that Intuit maintains that evaluation for
all their versions, including Q2008.
There are definitely users who have reported accessing Quicken
files over a network without experiencing any problems; and I
have never found any reason to disagree with them.
I, for one, have not had any compelling reason to make my
Quicken data accessible over a network, so I can not offer any
real-life observations on the subject.
I already begged off on the permissions/users sort of questions. ;-}
I'm glad Al and XS11E shared their knowledge on these topics.
The only time I've come close to this subject is in the dual-booting
context. By booting into WinXP Pro, for example, and installing Quicken
2008 Deluxe into E:\QuickenW, and then rebooting into Vista Ultimate x64 and
installing Quicken 2008 Deluxe AGAIN into the same E:\QuickenW, I can enter
transactions while in either OS and read them when rebooted into the other
OS. But Vista thinks I'm the same User\RC who installed Quicken into
E:\QuickenW while booted into Vista, so it doesn't object when User\RC wants
to access that application and data file. And WinXP thinks I'm the RC who
installed Quicken while running WinXP. Neither OS really knows the other
exists, so each thinks I'm the only user on this hardware. Neither thinks
that User\Charlie is trying to read my secrets.
That is NOT the same kind of scenarios that you and Al are discussing and
To clarify: the key is not necessarily to use a separate partition. A
separate folder is sufficient.
My Drive E: is a legacy from 10 years or so ago when I first started
dual-booting. At that time, I put Win95 in Drive C:, Applications in Drive
D: and Data in Drive E:, then added Drive F: for WinNT4 at the end of the
drive so that I could delete it when I finished learning about NT. Then I
got a second HD, then Win98 replaced Win95...and then Win2K came along. I
never had the time and energy to rationalize and re-organize all the
partitions and so they just "grew like Topsy". Disk Management appeared in
Win2K and made the job of creating and deleting partitions and "drive"
letters much easier, and I soon realized that there was no need to stick
with C:, D:, E:, etc., but I could assign any letters I want to any drive
(except for the System and Boot drives - which are reversed from what most
users think!) So my DVD burners are V: and W:, my ReadyBoost USB drive is
R:, my SanDisk card reader for photos is S: - and so on. My Mail Store
files somehow wound up on Drive H:. But, through it all, my Data drive has
kept the letter E:. It is only about 60 GB of a 300 GB RAID1 mirror now,
and QuickenW is only one of a few dozen folders, including Downloads,
Rotary, old OE Store Folders, Work and Excel documents - and my older
Program Files and Program Files (x86) folders, which should be emptied and
deleted as soon as I get A Round Toit.
To make all this re-partitioning easy, I've usually partitioned each HD as a
single small primary partition and a large extended partition divided into
several logical drives. Only the startup files go into the bootable primary
partition, and each single operating system (WinXP x86, WinXP x64, Vista
x64, etc.) is installed into a separate logical drive. That way, I could
delete a logical drive when I finished with a Vista beta, for example,
without deleting applications that I might have been running with that
operating system. The multiple primary partitions allow me to make each HD
bootable so that I can boot from Drive 1 or Drive 2 if Drive 0 is corrupted.
But, as I told John, I'm still the only user, so I haven't learned much
about allowing multiple LUAs to access the same Quicken file.
Not for me, the separate partition allows me to format C: and re-
install an OS w/o losing any mail or newsgroup info. I've never needed
to use Quicken on a different partition because it's so easy to restore
from the flash drive/CDRW that I use for backup (yes, both! I'm a belt
and suspenders guy when it comes to Quicken data. It's backed up other
places also such as an HP Personal Media drive.