So in other words you can't provide me with flights/proof that there are 4p or 60 return flights to anywhere else in the world except for shitty Europe, thanks for clearing that up. On and BTW I can afford to do as you do and fly all around the shithole that is Europe, I just choose not too
Redman
Oh dear, let's try getting on a civilian flight to America, Australia, New Zealand, S Africa etc without a passport, it cannot be done and you will never manage it on a military ID card on it's own, so yes I was correct.
Redman
How? It's got a chip on it, so what. The banks put chips on debit/credit cards without charging every time you get a new card.
Overseas holidays are often cheaper than UK holidays these days, with cheap flights and generally lower costs abroad.
There are other reasons for foreign travel, eg visiting relatives abroad.
It contains a RFID tag which means that anyone equipped with a suitable reader can access your personal details from your passport without even having to see it.
A great advance in security, NOT.
M.
I don't disagree. If a machine-readable component was needed, what's wrong with a chip with contacts or a barcode?
I wonder whether you can buy tin-foil passport holders on the internet? :-)
At 11:19:58 on 24/02/2008, Ronald Raygun delighted uk.finance by announcing:
Yes it has. The increased security is a benefit to the user as well as the state.
"Mark" wrote
Don't speculate when you obviously dont know -- do try to get your facts straight before you spout this kind of rubbish! ...
"Mark" wrote
Try looking here, which is the official website for the Identity and Passport Service (IPS), an executive agency of the Home Office:-
At what distance can the chip be read?
The IPS chips are designed to operate at a distance of just a few centimetres from the reader. The new British biometric passport is protected with a key that can only be obtained by manually or optically reading the bio data page (the page with the passport holder's details on). Also, once that key is obtained and communication established between the reader and the biometric passport, all messages are electronic with a unique key for each and every session thus thwarting any would be eavesdroppers.
The Basic Access Control protocol requires the passport to be open at the data page and the printed information optically scanned before any data can be read from the chip. It is not possible to read the UK passport when the e-Passport is closed without the relevant printed information.
Can my passport chip be read from my pocket in my coat on the tube?
No. In order to do this, an individual would need a specialist reader that would require a code that can only be obtained through information that is on the passport page itself. It would not be possible without getting physical access to the passport booklet itself and since the chip only contains information that is printed on page 31 of the passport, it would then be pointless to try to read the chip.
You said it wasn't possible to travel internationally on a military ID. It is. Then you said it isn't possible on a civilian flight. It is. You're wrong. You're out of date, old man.
I don't think so. In what way? I mean, how does it benefit him as a user, in a way which would not also benefit him as a non-user, e.g. as a resident of the state?
Surely the only direct benefit a passport gives to its user is that it allows him to, well, pass ports. It's also useful as general purpose ID in other situations. But that's it.
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
The increased security means it's more difficult for a fraudster to amend a genuine passport for subsequent use by an unauthorised person. This means that the fraudster is less likely to try to steal your passport.
That's gotta be good for the passport holder, who is less at risk of being stranded somewhere without it....
Military ID - not on it's own it's not, unless it's a military flight, tell me which Western civilian airlines allow you to travel on a Military ID card only?
Redman
OK, that's a benefit, but an immaterial one.
The risk of passport theft is pretty small anyway, I'd have thought. So small that the benefit from making it even smaller isn't worth paying that much extra for.
From the BA faq page:
Passports, visas and forms of ID
Question:
Do I need a passport, visa or forms of ID?
Answer:
Country entry and transit requirements around the world are subject to change and you are advised to check the requirements with the Consulate or Embassy of all countries on your itinerary, or for more information for UK passport holders please click here. British passport holders DO require their passport with them when travelling on journeys to/from/within Europe/the EU.
We do not require to see a passport or photo identification if you are travelling on purely UK domestic flights* (i.e. with no onwards international flights).
Love it and that's only from BA and their website. To save you the trouble I've emailed a lot of the big carriers and I'm only waiting on responses, I'll get back to you with them when they come thru. I'd be very surprised indeed if they are any different.
Redman
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
I'd say the *benefit* (not being stranded) is very much material (even if the *risk* of it is immaterial).
"Ronald Raygun" wrote
That might depend very much on where in the world you are...
A friend of mine was once on a train when everyone was "held up" and had their bags stolen (including passports etc). He found out later that it was quite common on that particular train journey for armed thugs to target tourists....
Hardly the point.
The pertinent question is whether he wants to cross international borders unhindered?
If he does then he will carry the appropriate documentation as required by the country he is visiting. If he does not then he will be hindered and possibly stopped. That would make the exercise pointless except to those who wish to engage in pointless tokenism about which nobody cares.
Any internal UK flight. I have travelled on my government ID for these. No passport needed.
Also you can fly to any European country on a government issued identity card.
EU and EEA nationals (EU + Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway) and Swiss nationals are permitted to enter any EU/EEA member state on production of a valid national passport or national identity card.
No I won`t supply you with proof, for the simple reason that I like having the option myself, and the more people do it, the fewer flights each person will get.
And if you want to spend your time in Vega, Disney Land and the like then that is a problem with you, not with everyone else who enjoys the res tof the world.
BeanSmart website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.