C'mon Newscorp, you can do better than this...

And some still want to squabble about whether Saddam had vile weapons or not...

Excellent, thats why they got ellected, because old labour had nothing wrong about it that it was old, it was just its policies where basically communist and all the previous leaders had no idea how to run a country, Neil Kinnock clung to some unionised country with strong socialist leanings.

This Labour Government understands the real word economic situation...and appies the right amount of socialism, socialism is good, it is caring, it is for the social welfare of the country.

In my opinion, my feeling about the old labour was that they wanted to spend spend spend spend without understanding how to earn earn earn...

I am all for giving to the poor, needy, sick, infirm, but I want to damned well make sure I earn what I give first....whereas the old laborites did not ever grasp that policy......

People like me had not any choice but to vote conservative, but now, we have a sensible alternative, and long may it reign.

Nog, democracy is our way of life, we can't go and inflict democracy on any country we wishfor, the main aim is to stop terrorism and tyrants, not to promote democracy..or not to "force" democracy......

I totally agree, that was part of a world wide view that America would never risk ground troops abroad! But now all that has changed. The technological superiority is unequalled anywhere in the world by the US, also on the ground, not just from the skies.

I can't add anything to that. I agree totally!

Thats new to me, I had never heard they where undercutting iraqi oil prices? Besides I thought oil price was controlled through OPEC.

But, I did hear that kuwait was "slant drilling" have you heard of this? In texas it is about the biggest thing you can do to get yourself shot..it is basically driling down at an angle....and tapping into reservoirs of oil on your neighbours land...and sucking up oil that lies directly beneath your nieghbors land.

I wonder how many people knew about this little gem? That is tantamount to stealing...

Yeah, its not that well known, mainly due to the rather poor standard of journalism/the media.

That was covered pretty well in a BBC doco from memory.

The Historical Preview section.

More shipping higher volume than the OPEC quota.

Nope, thats never been entirely the case and Kuwait has chosen to thumb its nose at OPEC quite a bit of the time too.

Thats certainly what Saddam claimed, but while there is some truth in that, its mostly a lie because only a tiny part of what oil Kuwait was selling came from wells like that.

Its a universal approach. It allows you to use a single drill head to cover much more underground than straight drilling does.

Yep.

Much more often into reserves in your own land/lease.

Saddam did shout that claim from the rooftops. Corse many wouldnt have even noticed the claim.

Sure, but it was much more complicated than just that.

Yes, not all news or points get through into main stream. thats true.

Ok I can believe that.

Yes I can believe that, trade organisations or agreements are not allways followed.

As you say, who can trust Saddam?

Ok, I only actually read that in the economist, I'm not an expert on it or anything. How do you know so much about that? Your seemingly quite well informed...

I did'nt know about that at all, interesting...

Welll at any rate, he would have to think of some excuse if he wanted to invade! So it makes sense he would have thought of something...

All cogent, coherent, good arguments. If they had been made by Bush and Blair, I would have accepted them. Having researched Saddam's track record, I would have accepted an invasion without ANY justification. So that leads to the question: Why lie?

Thanks for the compliment BJ, nice to have a difference of opinion with a civilised person. Putting the points about "heroin" to one side, I have to admit I'm not that familiar with what he said or how he said it, I was more concentrating on the build up to the war etc. So I just wondered why they built such a case about WMD? I mean nothing is black and white and it is probably difficult or impossible to know exactly the true situation... I think it brings us down to the question or interperation of "what is a lie and what is just good intentions" that did'nt materialise......... I think for the definition of lie, would have to be outright untruths, but saying you believe something and it not happening is perhaps a sighty different thing?

Incidentally I would welcome your opinion on the scientist who has apparantly committed suicide? Do you think their was anything sinister behind this?

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B J Foster wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com...

Any pathological liar can make a claim like that. How odd that you dont actually have a cite for that.

Even someone as stupid as you must have noticed that Italy aint the US, fool.

Any pathological liar can make a claim like that. How odd that you dont actually have a cite for that.

Pity that aint specific to the US either.

Absolutely no news to anyone given the previous deliberate attacks on the WTC, fool.

And you dont have a cite for that anyway.

Where's the one from the UK eh ? Dog lunched on it did it ?

More of your pathological lying. Not a shred of evidence that that was AS A RESULT OF YOUR PURPORTED OFFICIAL WARNINGS FROM ONE OF THOSE PURPORTED SEVEN COUNTRYS, not one of which you can actually provide a citation for.

That's just ONE of its roles, fool.

Even you should be able to bullshit your way out of your predicament better than that pathetic effort, fool.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to grasp who heads up that bit of the US administration too.

And that the yanks dont bother with knighthoods too.

Easy to claim, fool. Pity about no cite whatever, for any of them.

Without discounting the 'main' issue, this is not a small issue: "In all 7 000 to 8 000 acute drug-related deaths are reported each year in the EU, and the real number of cases is probably higher. Opiates are present in most overdose deaths, although presence of additional substances is frequent".

The address was made at the Labour Party conference. It was widely reported, including on Australian TV and Internet news services.

Here is the full text:

It was a great speech, very moving, mostly spot on target. Not much to debate - his points were mostly correct.

"'Shipping tonnes of heroin at Europe and the US might well be described as a form of asymmetric warfare', he told BBC News Online, using the term often applied to the use of suicide bombs and similar tactics by groups faced with apparently all-powerful military foes. ... The ongoing campaign by US and local forces against the Taleban and al-Qaeda 'remnants' was getting bogged down, he warned. ... Aid agencies and former soldiers have expressed concern that the planning for what to do once the war is over is dangerously incomplete. ... Much of the country remains in the hands of warlords who pay lip service to their alliance with the US and the government in Kabul, while running their territory effectively as a feudal fiefdom".

IOW, despite the tonnes of bombs dropped on Afghanistan and the illusion that the war is over, evil continues to pour out of the country - not in the form of suicide bombers but now in the form of heroin.

I don't know what to believe but it doesn't look good.

I don't dispute heroine is bad! We all know that. I am just making the simple point that its got nothing to do with fighting terrorism, and if it is ony ancilliary that if we are over their we may be able to stop some of it, or make it more difficult, however, it is not the reason, nor should it be..

Heroine is a separate issue and not related to the war on terrorism. in my opinion.

Yes, lots of small details that where not publicly known.

owed massive debts

He made a catastrophic miscalculation on that one.

it makes sense he would have thought of something..

What about his son Uday! Apparanty he used to just go around raping any woman at will..so I read.

Anyone can pull a stunt like that, liar. Provide a real cite.

Soorree, doesnt qualify as one of your 7.

Pity that wasnt even possible with as vague a claim as that with the US, fool.

Nothing to say about these other lies of yours eh ? Figures.

Even someone as stupid as you should have noticed that the Prez does in spades, fool.

YOU spewed those lies. YOU get to provide the cites. THATS how it works, pathological liar.

Yup, that's why heroin is pouring out in greater quantities than ever before. Even Pakistan is not amused.

Basic an attempt to get UN backing for the invasion of Iraq.

A rather misguided approach is it turns out, but there was no way to be sure on that without trying it.

materialise.........

And deliberate too. It fails that crucial test.

Completely different thing in fact given that it should be obvious that no intelligence can ever be perfect.

Nope. Presumably he was the source of the leak to the BBC and it eventually dawned on him what deep shit he was in legally what with the official secrets act etc.

Were you also, like Saddam, a Stalin understudy?

You're right, especially now. There aint too many that will bother with Tony Blair's speeches.

Especially pointed was his claim that they're killing "our children".

Don't you think we ought to ask him what he's done about it? Or don't you believe in holding politicians accountable?

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More of your pathologic lying on a valid cite.