Chip&Sig refusal: Capital One

| >She is also then not likely a) to remember where she is, b) who she is c) | >what she came out shopping for etc etc etc.

Oh for goodness sake - she is in the early stages of dementia. She can still remember who she is, can still remember telephone numbers (which I often can't, but that's why they invented phone books on mobiles), can still remember where she lives and where the rest of the family lives, and yes she can remember what she needs by the time she goes to the shops. It's the new things that she does not remember quite so easily, especially things which involves names or numbers hence why in her case a Chip & Pin card does not work.

| You are just being pedantic to try and prove your point which IMO does not | work! |

I don't have to try and prove anything.

We only have your word that she can't remember 4 numbers. If she can remember everything else I think you underestimate here - but it makes it easier for you to prove your point doesn't it?

"Eric Jones" wrote

I understand that it is quite common for people to have excellent long-term memories while beginning to lose their short-term memory. If she hadn't memorised the PIN several years ago, how do you expect her to remember it now?

In message , Eric Jones writes

Actually Eric, loss of short term memory is the classic sign of dementia. My father was exactly the same. He could remember the minutest of detail from the war, but not whether he had just had a cup of tea or not.

Which takes me back to my previous posting of who she is, where she is, and why am I here scenario. I still think that anyone letting a person beginning to suffer from dementia out on their own is asking for trouble. I mean how long will be it be before she begins to forget to pay at all and all the trouble that will bring?

| We only have your word that she can't remember 4 numbers. If she can | remember everything else I think you underestimate here - but it makes it | easier for you to prove your point doesn't it? | >

Stop being a troll and crawl back under your rock. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

In message , Eric Jones writes

Which is fair comment and the reason why we find to find special accommodation for him after he had tried to go 'home' to the house he last lived in in 1933.

Pot.......Kettle........ Black!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You obviously have no experience of someone in the early stages of dementia/Alzheimers. Its a classic symptom, memory 'rewinds' backwards with the most recent ones going first.

maybe 6 week, 6 months, 2 years. In the meantime, what do they do? dementia isnta classic you have it/you dont, its a scale, and people on the low end of the scale can get about ok as long as they stick toa routine. Eventually of course they will move to the bad end of the scale.

paying will be one of the last things to go though, because you learn it early, it will more likely be forgetting to go shopping at all or buying strange things.

john boyle wrote

There is another factor which hasn't been mentioned. I am 72, but have no problem remembering the two pin numbers for my cards, the three numbers and passwords to log into my home banking, etc etc.

But I cannot remember faces until I have met the person a number of times. When I see a familiar face in public and they acknowledge me I often have to ask them where I know them from! Embarrassing....

It took me about 15 minutes of thought tonight to remember the name for the shortest route across the world ie - the Great Circle Route.

I bet the lady in question has other memory skills which balance the problem with numbers, so perhaps some system could be devised , like a rhyme, in order to help her?

Tumbleweed wrote

I am old enough (72) to e experiencing this phenomenon, but it isn't as simple as forgetting _all_ the recent stuff, it is selective to some extent, in that I can remember the things I'm interested in. So as the memory cells disappear I don't waste time remembering the names of soap actors and stuff which some folk find easy, I remember the survival stuff. The key to using a PIN is to use it regularly, at first in the company of someone who she can trust.

Good idea, if such a mnemonic could be devised, but sod's law dictates that her particular sequence is pretty impossible.

Tiddy Ogg.

Ronald Raygun wrote: ...

Bits of paper can be /much/ easier to read than a PIN pad. You could, in extremis, even write the amount yourself on the paper.

You can. And it would keep me, for one, very much happier. You can also have different PINs for atm and shop-terminal use. But the banks want to give the customer an easy life.........

At 08:49:42 on 14/11/2005, Tiddy Ogg delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Then change it. Perhaps even to one of the phone numbers she remembers (not her own, of course)?

you are confusing ordinary forgetfulness with dementia, they are different processes entirely. You cant 'will yourself' to remember (or even learn) something if you have the latter. If you have dementia/Az you cannot learn new things, you could try and teach someone with Alzheimers a new PIN until the day you die, it wont work.

Same here :-)

again its sods law, she isnt going to remember either the mnemonic, or even the fact that she had a mnemonic! Its very difficult for people who havent been involved with Alzheimers (and even for some that have) to appreciate just how debilitating this condition is. But you can rule out *anything* that involves remembering something new. Even if its something she already knows, say a birthday, she would still have to remember one new thing, which is that that birthday is now associated with the bank card. Its not going to happen.

Tumbleweed wrote

I know you though! You're that bloke on the Internet, aren't you?