Chip and spin

I see in the news today that credit card fraud is supposedly down on last year as a result of chip and PIN technology:

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The cynic in me wonders whether fraud is really down, or whether banks refuse to accept fraudulent chip & PIN transactions as fraudulent, taking the attitude that the transaction was verified by PIN so it can't be fraudulent, and thus making the fraud statistics seem lower than they really are.

Any thoughts?

Adam

Reply to
Adam
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The report does go on to say:-

"Despite this, losses due to cards being used in telephone, online or mail order fraud continued to increase.

This type of fraud, where the legitimate card holder is not present, rose by 5% in the first half of the year to £95m.

And fraud using counterfeit cards rose even faster - up by 16% to £53m.

Apacs said the main factor behind this was the fact that criminals continue to copy the details of people's magnetic strips - known as skimming - to create fake cards.

These are then used at ATMs and tills in the UK that have not been upgraded to chip-and-pin or are used abroad."

I liked "Apacs said the main factor behind this was the fact that criminals continue to copy the details of people's magnetic strips". I mean they're criminals, they do this sort of thing for a living, what else would they do?

Reply to
Richard Oliver

Someone asked on the radio: Well, why don't they get rid of the mag strips then? Seems the obvious thing to do. I know that'll foul things up if you want to take the card abroad, but why not have a separate one for that purpose?

Tiddy Ogg.

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Reply to
Tiddy Ogg

Reply to
linkuk

I was in the USA recently and not only is C&P unheard of, they never even seem to even check the signature (i.e. card returned after swipe). One restaurant didn't even ask me to sign, just swiped it.

Reply to
Steve Pearce

Not surprised. I wonder what thier card fraud levels are compared with ours.

I used to work a usa company here in uk and also visited thier factories n the states and it really surprised me to see that for the worlds leading economy they didnt always strike me as supersmart. The way bush works only seems to reinforce my personal view.

Reply to
linkuk

I believe that, in the States, the individual bears a greater responsibilty for fraudulent use of their card. It is harder to obtain redress for funds which have been illegally withdrawn from your account.

Many Americans have 'CID' instead of their signature. The vendor is then expected to see some form of photographic ID such as a Driving Licence.

I am not sure how that would go down here. The signature is not a great deterrent - if at all.

Flop

Reply to
Flop

They don't check the sig in the USA though:

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He did eventually get his signature rejected. But he had to spend $16K before anyone took any notice.

Tim.

Reply to
google

In message , linkuk writes

No they dont. The Chip is all they need.

I think Tiddy's idea is a good one. People could have a Magnetic Strip card if they liked, but could have a chip only one if they wanted. The problem is that not all places in UK are chip enabled and card holders wouldnt be able to use many ATMs. I generally get my universal spending vouchers at the Supermarket as cashback so I would be quite happy.

Reply to
John Boyle

In the same report Faud at Cash Machines (ATMs) climbed by 37%.

Rather than opting out of Magstrip, why not opt out of PIN - which you can do?

Get yourself a Chip & Signature Card.

Reply to
James

But you'd have the strip, which is the root of the fraud. Please try to keep up.

Tiddy Ogg.

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Reply to
Tiddy Ogg

and yes I agree, remove the magstrip and half the problem disappears (In theory). So what about the other half - PINs. As we've seen C&P has resulted in fraud at point of sale migrating. But we've also witnessed a huge increase in the means and methods used to acquire PINs AND genuine cards. A crook armed with a PIN and Genuine Card, can do no end of damage without ever being challenged. 1 in 4 according to an APACS survey use the same PIN for all their cards. Why not remove the opportunity for Cash Point fraud by removing the PIN and continuing to Sign or Print, thus forcing anyone who steals your card to face down retail staff, forge your signature, or leave their mark etc. You can always claim that the signature isn't yours and the print definitley isn't, but card issuers are wriggling when it comes to PIN negligence and victims of PIN based crime end up bearing the cost, worry and stress.

Reply to
James

If we were talking about chip and pin countries only you would be correct john but if a usa user could only get a non chip and pin card then the strip is essential. It was as a universal system i was making the point about the strip containing information. As othr posters have mentioned the usa arent even considering them at present so everyone is stuck with the magnetic strip.

Reply to
linkuk

You can do what we do - we have C&Sig for debit and credit cards, so they can't even be used at cashpoints, and a cashpoint card with its PIN and magstrip which /only/ works at an ATM, and not in shops. Seems a reasonable compromise.

Reply to
Mike Scott

Why/how would Chip&Sig cards not be usable at cash points? They would work in the UK wouldn't they?

Reply to
tinnews

I am guessing "we" is Mike Scott and family.

If you had a chip and sig card you don't need a PIN. With no PIN issued the card can't be used at an ATM. The key is to ensure the bank haven't issued the PIN to you.

Reply to
Richard Oliver

Which I surmise is well nigh impossible surely. How could you "ensure the bank haven't issued the PIN to you."?

Reply to
tinnews

Well you could ask them to not issue the PIN in the first place and get their written agreement to this.

If you received the PIN notification not open it (the security tab) and file it away for that rainy day (or with your lawyer).

Just thoughts.

Reply to
Richard Oliver

"Richard Oliver" wrote

That would be considered negligent, and hence could make you liable for fraud on the card. The PIN notification needs to be read then destroyed, immediately after receipt.

You see, a burglar isn't going to be stopped from discovering the PIN simply by the "security tab"!

Reply to
Tim

By putting the card in the machine. It says "there's no PIN for this card" or similar, and spits it out. Seems pretty bombproof.

The point being that the cashpoint and shopping functionalities are now separated, and therefore more secure.

Reply to
Mike Scott

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