Chip and spin

Send it back to to the Bank, unopened and recorded delivery?

What proof is that, only that you've sent *something* to the bank, they're not going to confirm that it's your PIN on receipt are they!

I've experienced the following:

The issuing of Chip & Signature (C&S) cards differs between card issuers. Some send you a letter with your new C&S card stating it's C&S. Some send no letter so you're left guessing if it's a PIN or Signature card. Some send you a PIN - Which you immediately return in its secure form asking for a receipt.

I believe it should be written into T&Cs that Chip & Signature Card holders will not be responsible for use of their Card with a PIN. (Mistakes do happen).

Even if you already have C&S cards and you wish to change card issuers, then not one single UK card issuer has made any provisions for people who know the sort of card they require (C&S) to be able to apply for this type of card.

If anyone can tell me how you can apply for a C&S card on-line please do.

If anyone can show me an application form where it says tick here if you require a C&S card then please do.

All in all card issuers maybe breaking the law. (The Disability Discrimination Act Part 3). For a start how can someone who can't manage a PIN sign terms and conditions?

Are those who can't manage a PIN being disadvantaged - I think they are as application provision hasn't been made.

Are card issuers entering into the spriit of the Banking Code. i.e If they provided a product (C&S) they should tell you about that product and how it works.

Comments /Suggestions/Thoughts Most welcome.

... and do the bank send a receipt specifically for the return of the PIN? I doubt very much if they will do that, it would be a very costly process I should think.

I don't follow you here - whose mistakes?

Banks mistakes - I've acutally been supplied with a card, which was supposed to be C&S. A card arrived and then PIN a few days later. Out of curiosity my wife tried the card with the PIN at an ATM. It worked and it wasn't supposed to. We reported this to the card issuer who in turn issued a New Card without a PIN - a genuine C&S card.

At 14:50:00 on 07/11/2006, Tiddy Ogg delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Same reason they don't get rid of the embossing.

At 23:23:56 on 09/11/2006, James delighted uk.finance by announcing:

There seems to be a misconception as to what C&S actually is. The only difference is that a PIN will not be required for a regular transaction; the card may well still contain a PIN for ATM use (whether it's disclosed to the cardholder or not).

Alex, I presume you don't have or use Chip & Signature cards.

My Visa/MasterCards are all Chip & Signature - No PINS have been issued and no PINs are associated with the cards. The work regular is a wee bit misleading in your last post.

In ALL face-to-face transactions I sign.

ATMs can't be used - no PIN.

All other types of transactions where you pass your card details to A.N.Other remains the same.

Only at pay-at-the-pump, or self-service tills, especially at Tesco are neither a signature or PIN required.

If the Card as you suggest holds a PIN then as a PIN has never been issued to, or acknowledged by the cardholder then they have no liability issues whatsoever if their card is nicked and used at an ATM.

At 08:25:33 on 13/11/2006, James delighted uk.finance by announcing:

What does that have to do with it? And why did you snip the preceding context to my post?

If they got rid of the embossing they would be like my Spanish cards.

Sorry for snipping the preceding context - apologies. Surely the personal experiences of an actual Chip & Signature Card holder should count for something?

Anyway it looks as if it's safer to Sign than PIN. (Latest from the BBC)

After being kidnapped, the victims were driven to different parts of London during their ordeal. They were cowed into handing over their valuables and pin numbers and many victims were beaten unconscious and left covered in blood.

Terms & Conditons:

Do not allow anyone else to use your card, card number, cheques or PIN, or tell another person the PIN.

At 17:51:03 on 13/11/2006, James delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Would the kidnappers have believed they didn't know/have their PIN?

Just as well we haven't got biometric cards yet, or it could have been even worse. No doubt the kidnappers would have chopped off their victims' fingers so they could get past the fingerprint readers.

Adam

Don't they read this News group? ;-)

"James" wrote

So - no difference there then, between C&PIN or C&Sig, in the situation being considered. Even with a C&Sig card, the T&C stop you from "allowing anyone else to use your card".

"Adam" wrote

Good reason for using retina scans instead of fingerprints.

There's no point in the kidnappers plucking out the victims' eyes, because retina's look different when alive & dead ...

If someone mugs you and forcibly takes your card from you, I hardly think that would be construed as you "allowing" them to use it.

It could be argued that the "do not tell anyone your PIN" term would fall foul of the Unfair Terms rules, given that strictly speaking they forbid you from disclosing the PIN even under torture, which is obviously unreasonable.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

That's not the situation that was described - " **handing over** their valuables and pin numbers"

In other words, the kidnappers didn't "forcibly take" but rather they "forced giving" (terrorised the victims into complying - the victims handed over their cards and gave their PINs). [The kidnappers not dipping into the victims pockets.]

In that way, "handing over" your C&Sig card is no different to "handing over" your C&PIN card and PIN.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Agreed - and equally for handing over your C&Sig card under torture.