Disputed ATM transaction

Aren't the transactions recorded on video?

As a side not - you do have to wonder if a large part of the reasoning behind "chip n pin" wasn't for "our security" but to make it easier for the banks to ignore all responsibility.

Errors in the system certainly happen - I once disputed a withdrawal from a machine I had never used. The building society's explanation was that the machine's location had been misprogrammed, and I had actually withdrawn the cash from another nearby branch (which was probably true). They refunded the money anyway for the sake of goodwill (it was only £10 or £20).

Google John Munden.

:-(

Tim.

I don't know, but when seen this subject on TV I have seen the point made that they know and acknowledge that cloned card ATM transactions are possible and do happen. So how can they legitimately be allowed to wipe their hands of the liability knowing that such fraud is possible?

Apparently the criminals get the PIN from shop till portable PIN machines which have been modified to record the card details and the PIN. It was done at Shell petrol stations usually.

If the person can prove where he was at the time of the withdrawal it should help his case a lot.

The other possibility is that a family member saw the PIN being entered and used the card. This is apparently a very common explanation for "phantom" ATM withdrawals. Is he sure the card was physically in his possession at the time of the withdrawal?

Don't they have to use the cloned cards abroad where the mag stripe rather than the chip is used? Or do some UK ATM machines still use the stripe?

It doesn't prove they didn't give the card to someone else to use (or it was taken without consent).

Ross Anderson's your man -

The whole point of Chip & PIN is to transfer responsibility away from the bank onto the customer. It totally fails to protect the customer but protects he bank who always says you must have shouted out the PIN in your sleep or something - leaving you to prove a negative.

See

So they say fraud is down from Chip & PIN. Because if the banks don't lose it isn't fraud and only they report it.

It's easy to clone a card with your account which will accept any number as the PIN as the PIN terminal asks the card "is this PIN OK" and it always says yes.

Use cash - you can only lose what's printed on the banknotes.

"Aidy" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Some may be, but certainly not all.

In article , freepo writes

I used to use supermarket and 'venue' ATM's but now use my local Post Office, until they close it, I find this more reassuring though I suppose fraud can happen there as well.

The wankers, sorry bankers will just claim you loaned someone your card and pin.

Mike

Steve Walker posted

That paper's a bit old now but the principles are all the same.

You have hit the nail on the head. This is why it is so difficult to get a chip and signature card. They do exist, but many banks will only give you one with a certified medical condition.

even then, 90% of shops won't accept it ....

Isn't 'paranoia about my card being cloned and used by somebody else' a medical condition?

Don't they 'have to' accept it - even if they don't like it?

Nope, a shop can decline to accept any sale.

Chip & Sig isn't too much of an unusual method of payment, i'd guestimate we handle 2-3 a week, out of around 600-800 card transactions.

Tom

A shop can refuse to serve you for any reason they like.

Its worth having a look at this site about security issues with cards

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Ian Jackson said

You just have to claim a medical condition makes it impossible for you to sue chip & pin. They cannot ask for proof nor ask for what the condition is.

Complete cr&p .. everywhere is required to accept it by law (Disabilities discrimiantion act)

Yes. The only thing a chip&sig card won't do it work in a hole in the wall ATM or a 'pay at the pump' petrol station.