Disputed ATM transaction

Google is your friend .. however back then I think the relevant page was

GSV Three Minds in a Can posted

What search terms should we use? If it's that easy, *you* should have been able to Google a page that backs up your claim.

Answering a question with "Look it up on Google" is no answer. It's the same as saying you don't know.

That page doesn't say that a CC issuer who won't swap your chip & pin card to chip & sig is breaking the law. Even if it did, we would need to know just what law.

Incidentally, when I told my CC company I wanted to keep my chip and sig card, they told me that *that* would be breaking the law!

I lost £50 from an ATM machine; the money didn't come out while my account was drawn. That was sometime in the 1980s, I have never used a cash machine since.

At 23:58:50 on 28/03/2009, John Stumbles delighted uk.legal by announcing:

And although he raises some good points, not an insignificant amount of what he says is actually nonsense.

Erm.... he's the Professor of Security Engineering at University of Cambridge Computer Lab, and a globally-recognised expert on IT & Financial security.

What are your credentials, Alex?

Credentials aside, I'd be interested to hear what he thinks is nonsense, and what evidence he can bring to support his view.

The Prof does sometimes overstate his case for rhetorical effect :)

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Big Les Wade said

'Disabilities discrimination act, chip and pin signature' should find you quite a few. You could also revisit the previous discussions here, available through google groups (unless it is broken again).

No, I clearly DO know, because I have 3 chip & sig cards, and my mother has one, and my wife has 4. It the same as saying 'do your own research' and 'you get what you put up with'.

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Big Les Wade said

e.g.

GSV Three Minds in a Can posted

That's like saying, "So you wanted to know who discovered radium? Why didn't you just google on "Pierre and Marie Curie" for heaven's sake?"

It's easy to find the answer if you already know it. Not that I am convinced even now.

What discussions and where is "here"?

That shows you know how to get a chip and sig card. It doesn't show you know how to support your assertion that it's against the law for cardholders to refuse you one if you claim you are disabled.

GSV Three Minds in a Can posted

That doesn't say what you claim. What it does say is "Chip and PIN and the petrol industry are both aware of the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act to ensure that any disabled cardholders are able to use their cards to pay for their petrol, regardless of the type of card they hold. If disabled drivers find their card is not being accepted, they should contact the HQ of the petrol company straight away."

That is not the same thing at all. It is saying that petrol retailers are not allowed to reject chip and sig cards; not that CC companies are required to issue them to customers who ask for them.

What clause?

Reasonable adjustment?

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Big Les Wade said

Here is the uk.finance usenet newsgroup.

Just go research the DDA, and if you put 10% of the energy into disputing with your card issuer that you want to put into disputing with me, you will have chip and sig cards in no time.

GSV Three Minds in a Can posted

Ah. I am reading uk.legal. The thread is crossposted.

No. If you *know* the DDA requires this, you must already know what it says and where, so you can easily quote it here.

I've spent about five minutes writing replies here. I spent many, many hours trying and failing to get a chip and sig card.

At 14:18:10 on 29/03/2009, Steve Walker delighted uk.legal by announcing:

A decade in the industry.

The 'nonsense' I was referring to isn't the technical details of what he says, BTW, but the scaremongering he attaches to it.

For instance, I could say that some motor cars can theoretically explode so we should take them all of the road.

At 14:49:46 on 29/03/2009, Big Les Wade delighted uk.finance by announcing:

The most recent specific case (which is a year or so old now IIRC) is his campaign to get chip & PIN scrapped based on the use of SDA because some card data could be copied to a fraudulent card. Whilst true, it's still not a trivial task, and he could instead have just campaigned for the introduction of DDA as standard (which has actually now been mandated in Europe by Visa/MC in any case).

Even then, I'd personally recommend any issuers to go with CDA (which additionally prevents the theoretical relay attacks Cambridge came up with). CDA isn't mandated yet though, because terminals probably won't support it - MC have only mandated it for terminals certified from

BTW - his long-running battles with Sandra Quinn (of APACS) didn't help since she comes across as clueless when trying to respond. I suspect he may just enjoy the conflict, as we probably all do at some point.

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Big Les Wade said

OK, well read the original thread (or at least one of them) at (watch the wrap):

or just google for how to get chip & signature card

and select 'groups'.

What if you are not registered disabled?

Mark gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Then you don't _need_ one.

There's no requirement for them to offer an alternative to somebody who just doesn't _want_ a chip'n'pin.

But that's discrimination on disability - or ability? Don't they amount to the same thing under the act?

Won't = Can't