Credit card without chip and pin

No.

It isn't illegal for a shop to get itself ripped off by allowing people to pay with invalid payment methods.

It is illegal for the shop to sell alcohol to minors.

Both are equally illegal for the *purchaser*, but not for the *shop*.

In message , Clive wrote

There also appears to be another system.

I used my C&P for a £200 bill in a terminal which asked for, and appeared to accept, my PIN. The retailer then told me that the transaction hadn't been authorised and he then phoned the card issuer and put the amount through using an automated answering system, using the phone keypad as the entry system.

The problem was that the amount was first entered without the decimal point resulting in the £20,000 being rejected.

I can see that this system is open to abuse by the retailer. The customer having first checked and authorised the amount shown on the terminal has no easy way of establishing what amount has been keyed in over the phone - until the credit card bill arrives.

Although in my case the retailer was reputable (if that can be said about a car main dealer) I was still checking my account over the web until the amount cleared my account.

I'm not sure that I would have realised that a different amount could have been billed if the retailer hadn't made a mistake in the first instance and told me about it - I would have assumed that he was just obtaining an authorisation code.

At 19:12:36 on 09/04/2006, Clive delighted uk.finance by announcing:

That decision is taken jointly by the card and the terminal, not just the terminal. It will only fall back if both the card (issuer) and terminal (acquirer) allow it.

At 19:43:32 on 09/04/2006, Alan delighted uk.finance by announcing:

At which point the customer calls his card issuer and the chargeback process is started. It is then up to the retailer to prove the transaction was authorised.

Dont you have to register for those the first time you use them? certainly had to at Sainsbury's.

Not at Tesco.

But the Bank of America would refer the complaint to the merchant's bank.

That is the one who would be concerned by a significant number of complaints.

Nope.

There are quite a few who will only accept VISA Delta (i.e. debit cards, not credit cards). There are also quite a few who will not accept VISA Electron, even if they accept both Delta and normal.

Nope.

Any merchant operating "face to face" transactions in the UK who does not operate Chip and Pin now is liable for *any* fraud.

If they do operate chip and pin, then they are still liable for any fraud if they accept a signature when the terminal is expecting a PIN.

The only time they can "safely" accept a signature is if the terminal says it is a chip and sig card, or if it is a foreign card without a chip.

Reading between the lines, I think the restaurant has got the 'hots' after reading about credit card fraud or has been given crook advice by a bank officer. It seems the manager or owner should obtain authoritative advice from the bank on what should be acceptable.

Traditionally credit card providers have not refused payments on fraudulent transactions to the likes of shops and restaurants who have acted in good faith, but perhaps they are getting more aggressive nowadays. This contrasts with 'no card' transactions eg telephone orders where the vendor takes a calculated risk that the customer is genuine.

My experience of having a terminal ask for a call to the merchant is that the automated system links my call up with the details which have been put through on the card terminal. eg auto system asks for our merchant number and the customer's card number, then an operative is able to ask "the amount is £Xk, correct?"

One would hope that this safeguard guards against the risk of the call producing a different value transaction than the terminal, and customer's authorisation.

Ian

Alan wrote:

I became aware of the same thing with a foreign credit card holder who had a UK account with Barclays. Barclays refused their cash advance on the basis that it was not a Chip and Pin card...

Comes to something when the Coop and Barclays dont know the rules...

Ian

Col> > So where does that leave 'chip and signature'?

Nope....Just go in and use it....No questions asked..... So swipe someones card from them in the car-park, nip into the store and get your monthly groceries in, then pay for them at the self-service checkout...Bobs your uncle.....

Presumably the automated system does as much as any staff member could (just guessing as I have not seen this system since I refuse to shop at Tesco) in this matter?

What really annoys me at checkouts is a brain-dead person who waits until the bill is rung up before thinking to take out her purse and rumage through it to find whatever method of payment she intends to use... or even worse, as the other day in front of me, someone who insisted on packing her purchases before doing this.

Axel

I didn't have to register to use Sainsbury's self-service checkouts.

Chris

snipped-for-privacy@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote: ...

IMO needing to pay at the checkout ranks alongside green traffic lights as one of the two Most Unexpected Things To Happen.

But getting back OT, I used my C&Sig card last week on holiday. The assistant, finding a sig was needed, said "I don't think we can take that". Fortunately her colleague overheard and was better informed. I guess there's been a lot of bad training around, not helped by the banks' association of the terms "chip" and "PIN" at almost all stages of the publicity.

At 22:32:03 on 09/04/2006, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com delighted uk.finance by announcing:

That assumes the referral is requested as a result of an online transaction, rather than the lack of one.

"Alex Heney" wrote

Would they accept a VISA (*not* Delta), *Debit* card?

"Chris Blunt" wrote

Did you have to link it to your loyalty card, which you had already registered?

I really would like the name of the credit card company that works this way. The only time I had to initiate a charge back it was me that was expected to jump through the hoops proving my case and asking around everyone else had experienced the same.

tim