Credit card without chip and pin

Do you find that you have to carry a pen with you now, since the staff don't think they need to have one? And do you get the ones which swing the terminal towards you without looking at it, until you get fed up and say "no, it's a signature card"?

And if you get arrested, wrongfully or not, your fingerprints and DNA are taken and retained forever...

But isn't it the stance of the banks that if the correct PIN was entered then the transaction was authorised by the cardholder so there was no fraud?

At 18:38:08 on 10/04/2006, Jim Hatfield delighted uk.finance by announcing:

There will be no PIN entered for this transaction if it was all done over the phone.

In article , Alan writes

Yes, in the same way as Tesco fuel pumps that accept cards

At 13:51:27 on 10/04/2006, tim (back at home) delighted uk.legal by announcing:

So you have one experience with one company and you assume that's the norm. I've had two experiences with two different companies (one Barclaycard, the other I forget) and both times it's been as I described.

You invented cold fusion didn't you?

That's obviously incorrect.

sorry?

No it isn't, you have no idea what the sample set was.

tim

At 20:00:31 on 10/04/2006, tim (back at home) delighted uk.legal by announcing:

A sample size of one proves your case?

Since it now includes me, and I have not experienced the same, it is.

He/she is merely observing an obvious security precaution - don't take out your purse before you need it.

Authorisation is given from the card issuing bank - not the merchants bank. It IS possible foa transaction to be authorised 'at chip' (depending on the issuing bank).

Also Authorisation does NOT guarantee the payment will go into the merchants account (although in 99% of transactions it will) - an authorisation number proves only two things

1. Card HAD sufficient funds at time of the authorisation
2. The card has been REPORTED stolen.

Biggest question we get on our helpdesk is - 'I have an authorisation number - how come the transaction has voided'.

If you enter your PIN 3 times in succession (not even on the same machine) your card will become PIN locked.

Clive

At 21:18:30 on 10/04/2006, Clive delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Which doesn't actually answer the question.

It's not just possible (in the UK), it's always the case that the initial decision is taken by the chip. If the decision is not a decline, further processing depends on the rules in the terminal (random online selection etc.).

The bank I work for has set all it's terminals (Online & Offline) to get online authorisation AND has set all floor limits to zero. This has reduced the number of dodgy transactions under the old preset floor limits

Clive

Correct - for example many different types of traders can only accept Debit cards - bookies and casinos for example (a legal requirement).

Lot's of large companies also have agreements to carry out or restrict certain types of transactions;

For example Post Offices are not allowed to key number entry a sale. A certain large pub chain also has this in their agreement.

The whole area is card processing industry is pretty grey at the moment, because certain banks are at certain stages of implementing Chip & Pin.

Also if the retailer OWNS their Credit card terminals - they would have to purchase Chip & Pin equipment (extra cost to them, where if they rent from their bank, they get upgraded free.

Clive

No, nothing like that at all. I just started using the checkout the first time I noticed it there. There's nothing at the checkout to suggest that any kind of registration is required. This is at the Sainsbury's at Kiln Lane in Epsom.

Chris

That's bullshit. Not in theory, perhaps, I accept that. In practice it makes no difference. I live in America, all my cards are American, and few British retailers would be able to recognise if they're credit or debit.

I've used American credit cards in places like you describe, where they insist on debit cards only, with no problem. Likewise, many car hire companies insist on credit cards only, they claim they can't accept debit cards - that's rubbish too, you hand them a debit card and it works.

Mike

You must shop in a rough area ;)

Mike, you are partly correct - you may well be able to use a credit card in a casino in the UK. The FACT is, if the credit card terminal is in the gambling part of the establishment then they are BY LAW not SUPPOSED to take credit cards transactions and the terminals are configured that way (again by law).

HOWEVER, many casinos also have eating places within the building and the terminals in that part of the premises may well be configured to take credit cards.

Now what the Casinos do - (and we fine them several times a year for doing this) is... they swap the terminals over many of them being Bluetooth ones, or if not just swap them anyway, because all they need is a phone line and use the terminal that accepts Credit cards in the gambling part of the building.

I can assure you this is FACT and as part of my job I monitor this and supply records to courts to backup any charges brought against them by the bank.

Your second point about the card hire thing... Many companies have local or company policies not to accept certain cards. This is purely their decision. By default all the machines we supply will accept all cards/types of transactions.

Now the merchant can decide to arrange with a bank to have certain card schemes removed from the terminal, or certain types of transaction removed, such as casback, etc.

Clive