Several Jobs PAYE Tax Problem Again

There is some truth to that yes, and to a certain extent Sch 36 penalties will do just that but they are still not at a level to stop the more determined types from chancing their arm.

Also, this still only targets the taxayers, and yet PwC, KPMG, Deloittes and others still have large departments whose sole purpose is to seek ways of circumventing the legislation and then selling the schemes to those willing to try them out. If they get it wrong, the taxpayer has to pay them for the advice in the first place, HMRC for the underpaid duties, interest and any penalty. The agents who come up with the idea get away scott free and even get to keep the fees they charged at the outset.

Now is that fair, or the fault of HMRC?

I wouldn't pay fees to a firm of accountants for a scheme that was useless.

It is the responsibility of HMRC to come up with legislation that works.

When our idiot of a Prime Minister was Chancellor he decided to introduce a 0% corporation tax rate. Accountants warned that a lot of companies would be formed to simply save tax. The idiot said that he didn't think it would happen. A lot of companies were formed to save tax! A lot of stupid legislation was put in place to try to stop tax being lost before going back to the situation before the idiot started meddling.

The idiots in government and HMRC didn't know what they were doing. Accountants, far from trying to find loopholes, were trying to ensure that stupid legislation was not passed.

Now it seems that HMRC try to blame accountants for the stupidity of HMRC.

Wrong, HMRC administers legislation, it does not write it.

Are you disputing that the larger firms have these departments that have the specific tasks of finding ways around legislation?

If so, why did the former chancellor have to arrange for legislation to require them to declare these schemes prior to selling them?

Peter, I am sorry but I am more than a little peeved with the constant reference to idiots. The front line people you deal with don't get a choice of what and when they can do things. They have had their numbers decimated and their workload remains the same. They report for duty and get a list of cases they will action on the day and are expected to compete the list. The people in the call centre's have Dickensian conditions imposed on them to the point that there is a system where they have to ask permission to use the loo.

There are publicized response times for responding to mail namely, that 80% of mail will be responded too within 40 days of receipt. If you are not experiencing this then rather than just complain here, which is just venting with no purpose, but lodge formal complaints with HMRC, that is just what they are asking for.

Simon posted

If we send a complaint to HMRC it won't even be opened for another three months. At least if we complain here it appears within a few minutes.

HMRC do not get involved in the legislative process at all?

I'm not disputing it. I am saying that the legislation has not been thought through.

I'm not saying it's the fault of the front line people.

In the example I have given the letter is automatically generated and could be sent out immediately. It is simply giving a code to the taxpayer to pass on to their agent. There is no knowledge required or investigation work needed. Why does it take over three weeks to be received by the tax payer?

If you were writing this months ago I would agree, but a recent poll in January of accountants reported that the almost all were now happy with this service and therefore I wonder if you are being singled out, or are you just dragging up old complaints.

This shows that you have no understanding of how HMRC works. I phoned the number I was given for complaints and the person I was speaking to didn't seem to understand what I was talking about. She said she used to work for Customs and Excise and didn't know anything about income tax. I asked to speak to somebody who knew about income tax and she said there wasn't anybody there.

This was not an isolated incident.

I put at least one of my complaints in writing and I was promised it would be resolved immediately. Five years later and it is still wrong. HMRC talking about putting things right but it is more talk than action.

I still wonder why agents are reporting it takes about 10 days when you are still claiming 3 week delay on issue. This was a problem Last year, nobody seems to be reporting this problem this year.

I wonder how truthful you are being.

Wrong, they will respond very quickly to complaints. Try it.

One of my clients has had an "over repayment". This results in their transactions not being viewable online. Nobody at HMRC can explain why an over repayment causes this. It has been known for a long time but it has not been corrected despite many requests. If a commercial organisation or an individual software hobbyist made this error they would correct it within days. HMRC can't resolve it within months. HMRC is run by idiots and no amount of saying "lodge a formal complaint" will change that and get things put right.

Which part "we do not supply our own software" is not understood. It was EDS its now CapGemini. we report failures to them and they are supposed to correct the software.

As far as I was aware, there is only one complaints team nationally and they dont give out their phone number. Put your complaint in writting. The local manager is obliged to report the complaint to the team even if they are given permission to try and resolve the complaint locally.

If you complain here, you are venting but HMRC does not monitor this group so if you have a complaint and you expect something to be done, then you have to write to HMRC. Address it to the person named on the letter or other correspondence. If you want to write "COMLAINT CASE" all over the outside of the envelope, or if you really want to draw attention to your case start it out Dear Darling

Simon posted

Delightful. Almost poetically surreal.

Watch my lips, before companies can pay tax there has to be some profit.

Employer?s NI is a deluded insane tax that is levied regardless of any profit.

Over the last four years, they have paid their NI but doing so has presumably wiped out what small profit they had been making.

Along comes the credit crunch and now they can't even pay that anymore so the understanding taxman puts the boot in and bang goes another British industry.

It?s blindingly obvious now, to anyone, that if the UK economy is to get out of this hole it?s businesses like that one that we need to do it for us and, for that to happen, Government has got to stop treating them like cash cows they can plunder with the added bonus of no electoral consequence.

The public sector was bloated and unaffordable before the credit crunch, let alone after, and yet those Guardian none job columns are as full as ever ? it?s f**king fairyland.

Something has to give and the assumption seems to be that that will be tax rises which is complete bollocks because there?s just no more blood to be had from that particular stone not enough even to stand still.

Watch my lips, before companies can pay tax there has to be some profit.

Employer?s NI is a deluded insane tax that is levied regardless of any profit.

Over the last four years, they have paid their NI but doing so has presumably wiped out what small profit they had been making.

Along comes the credit crunch and now they can't even pay that anymore so the understanding taxman puts the boot in and bang goes another British industry.

It?s blindingly obvious now, to anyone, that if the UK economy is to get out of this hole it?s businesses like that one that we need to do it for us and, for that to happen, Government has got to stop treating them like cash cows they can plunder with the added bonus of no electoral consequence.

The public sector was bloated and unaffordable before the credit crunch, let alone after, and yet those Guardian none job columns are as full as ever ? it?s f**king fairyland.

Something has to give and the assumption seems to be that that will be tax rises which is complete bollocks because there?s just no more blood to be had from that particular stone not enough even to stand still.

Oh get of your high horse. Employers NI has been a part of business for 40 years or more. Why would it come as a surprise to anyone that employees staff. It is part of being an employer not just here but in every state in the EU.

If a busniess cant plan to pay its taxes as and when they arise then they deserve everything they get. You quoted a large figure of Employers NI. Did they pay the tax and Employees NI they took from the wage packets of the employees or is that part of the large bill. If not, then they made a deliberate and concious decision to avoid paying the legally due NI, thus gaining an advantage over their competitors and still the incompetant bastards go out of business.

Dont wail and whinge that its HMRC's fault, try blaming the directors of the business who obviously not competent to run the business effectively, yet probably filled their on pockets in the process.

If you thinks that its ok for ANY business to deliberately hold back taxes that are legally due, it is you that lives in f**king cloud cuckoo land.

It doesn't come as a surprise it comes as a hole in the head when profits have dried up and the bank balance is in the red no matter how predictable.

Shit happens except to the taxman of course.

No business can plan on profit especially in the face of economic collapse.

They design and build vans before they sell them remember and NI is payable before that as well, so you're relying on the revenue stream which can dry up completely as now.

There's nothing remotely cloud cuckoo land about reminding socialists that taxes have to be earned through wealth creation first, they don't grow on money trees.

Like I said, the taxman can bleat all the law it likes but it?s no much use when there's no law that says all customers must buy their goods and services of them to make them a profit.

You would have to go back to Stalinist Russia to find that situation and look where it got them, no goods, no services, no profit and certainly no tax.

We could have a law tomorrow that says it must not rain but only delusional New Labour could ever dream of going out without an umbrella on that basis.

At least 2 as far as I am aware. One in Scotland telephoned me to advise that there would be a short delay in responding as my complaint had been forwarded to the Leeds team as they dealt with complaints in my area.

PS Peter, as you wonder about my personal life SO much, no I do not live in either of those places.

creepy comment!

It seems to be a stupid way of doing things. I could never say to my clients ... I can't deal with your accounts until my software supplier corrects the problem but that may take months or years or never happen. You seem to live in a world in which you regularly pass the buck.

Except the 17000 that have lost their jobs over the last two years and the other 8000 that will do so over the next two.

But they can plan on the number of employees and the amount they pay them. In fact I know that is precisely what they will have done and factered this into their production costings well in advance.

Actually, it does, its printed on paper which is made from Trees.

and no whining prats as they were all put up against the wall and shot.

But New Labour did not create the NI system and it hasn't changed in its main structure since its inception. It is nolonger just UK Law but part of EU law so once again you are talking out of your posterior.