Times: Fraud victims left in the lurch by banks

because C&P effectively puts the onus on the customer to prove it wasnt them. If that wasnt the case they wouldnt need to write to chairmen or newspapers.

No, it makes *using* a cloned card harder, not making one. As the article shows all you need to do is clone the magstripe which is on the C&P card and take it to the correct ATM.

We need when talking here to differentiate between C&P Technology and a C&P card. A C&P *card* can be cloned, and used, as we saw. C&P technology cant be cloned but thats irrelevant since we dont have C&P technology cards, we have C&P cards which conveniently have a magstripe on them.

helps who?

Magstripe technology is not being phased out. C&P cards still have magstripes and will have for the indefinite future.

Indeed.

(From JB)>

yeh, I'm sure it wont occur to the crooks to email the magstripe contents to someone in france, or belgium, or for that matter paraguay, and have a cloned card created and used there within a few minutes of it being skimmed (which may not be in the UK of course). Nope they'll never think of that unless someone inadvertently gives them the idea in a newsgroup posting.

Tim we agree (!!!), JB seems entirely unable to understand this fact.

In message , Tumbleweed writes

I think you are being a bit obtuse here. For us in UK, after 14/2 I dont think there will be any magstripe ATMs in UK. The old technology is just for non UK use.

And what machines will read them?

Yes.

At 20:02:40 on 16/01/2006, Tumbleweed delighted uk.finance by announcing:

No it doesn't.

In the same way that the SoGA also doesn't apply to certain companies unless you write to their chairmen or newspapers. Let's all blame the SoGA for faulty goods.

Ive not seen that.

Yes, but the cardw ould need to be nicked as well.

Eh?

What? I dont see how you have made that jump form what I said. You would need the card AND the pin.

Mistake. At the time of the OP incident the ATM was old magstripe. They are now almost all C&P. So a cloned magstripe wont work.

Lets wait and see if this happens then.

I agree. See all my posts passim about so called bank 'managers' (ahem).

No. It was a stupid clerk. The card was magstripe and C&P. The magstripe bit was cloned, not the C&P bit.

No. They wont have the card anymore. The story is quite different from the OP in which they still had the cards. If the card is nicked it puts a different spin on the story. The majority of card fraud is cloning. Theft of the original and subsequent use of the PIN before the owner realises it has gone missing is relatively small.

Yes. A stupid mistake.

In message , davidof writes

Different type of C&P in France I understand.

In message , "tim (moved to sweden)" writes

You are putting some strange interpretations on the text I believe.

Yes, a stupid remark by the bank and possibly enhanced by the journalist.

Not so, 'Clone' means an exact copy. The so called 'cloned' card has no C&P, just a magstripe. It isnt an exact copy. It sint a clone. Its a copied magstripe.

Thats the idea.

See above.

Just the ones between (alphabetically)

Afghanistan ... and ... Zimbabwe

I see no answer? Shurely shome mishtake?

In message , Tumbleweed writes

Panic ! sheer panic!

This is semantic that the customer wont understand.

To me a copied mag strip is a cloned card. If the Bank want to play silly games with names they should leave it for the stuff that doesn't interface with a customer.

tim

In message , Tumbleweed writes

Yesh!

It helps by reducing crime.

Is that good enough?

In message , "tim (moved to sweden)" writes

Your intelligent to know the difference though arent you?

Oh, I was wrong.

'Silly games' is it when things dont go your way? Your better than that.

At 19:24:44 on 16/01/2006, davidof delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Debit cards only, and not chip.

At 20:36:38 on 16/01/2006, Tumbleweed delighted uk.finance by announcing:

It's interesting that a lot of these countries are certifying their EMV solutions then, isn't it?

At 20:10:17 on 16/01/2006, Tumbleweed delighted uk.finance by announcing:

You also need to discover the PIN, and you need to identify the correct ATM.

At 20:15:43 on 16/01/2006, Tumbleweed delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Who are moving to EMV.

Who are moving to EMV

Who may move to EMV

And the cardholder managed to get from the UK to Paraguay in a few minutes?

At 20:56:06 on 16/01/2006, tim (moved to sweden) delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Not at all. In fact, if the mag stripe is CLONED then it will definitely NOT work in an EMV-enabled terminal or ATM.