Any point at all to "Where's my refund?"

This message is dated 6:25am; I'm in PST.. Wait till EOD. Also I read in the news about a delay in IRS refunds. Search like this

From one aricle there: BEGIN QUOTE In the past, most taxpayers who filed their tax returns electronically received their refunds in one to two weeks, says Gene King, a spokesman for H&R Block. This year, it's usually taking 10 to 21 days, he says.

END QUOTE

On (2) above the app is usually helpful. They should update it to handle the glitch, giving the realistic time to receive the refund.

I waited until two days after the day reported by the app before posting, so the time of day isn't particularly relevant.

Yeah, they really should. Because like I said, an app that gives an incorrect timeframe is less useful than no app at all.

I got a big tax credit this year for installing solar panels on my roof, so if they need to spend extra time reviewing my return to make sure I'm not scamming the, I'm totally fine with that. I just want them to give me accurate information about it.

(And incidentally, I was pretty appalled that neither my federal nor Massachusetts taxes required any sort of documentation for claiming the solar tax credit. It seems pretty ripe for abuse. I'm almost _hoping_ I get a letter from the IRS or the Massachusetts DOR asking for documentation to back up that credit, because that would reassure me that anyone who wants can't get free money from the government simply by claiming that they installed solar panels on their roof.)

There may be something wrong with the application. I filed in January (2 weeks earlier than last year), and it said that my refund was authorized as of February 14, but I have yet to see it too. I know my direct deposit information is correct because I have used that account before in past years.

Regardless, by law, the IRS/Treasury need not disburse a refund until the due date of the return - April 17, 2012 this year.

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote

Some lessons to learn:

Life is not fair You don't always get what you expect

My experience this year is that it's taking about 10 days for the feds to refund. This for returns under the Modernized E-File. Returns under the old Legacy system are still, as I understand it, on their old schedule. If your return didn't qualify for MEF, then expect your refund today.

My experience also indicates that when you are most in need is when there will be a delay.

Another lesson: Machines are not always correct.

Refunds are sent out electronically only once per week, late on Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning, so you can expect your refund on 3/7/2012 at the earliest. They must have missed your expected "slot" in the schedule for some reason. See

Maybe the bank has already received the refund, but has not posted it yet. Some banks are like that. Have you asked them about it?

The snarky lessons are not helpful and perhaps not appropriate for this otherwise quite civil newsgroup.

You may think it funny, but me, waiting for an $8,442 refund (solar PV rebate threw off my withholding for the whole year), not so much. I doubt you would say things like this to your paying clients.

I am aware of all these things. It is reasonable to complain about an application that is heavily hyped by the IRS and yet that it is giving blatantly false information to taxpayers, and to ask whether there is any way one might express those complaints to someone who might be reasonably expected to do something about them.

banks are like that. Have you asked them about it?

My bank consistently posts direct deposits on time. This is not the issue (especially since the payment is still missing, several days later).

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote

I know there are or were some problems with the IRS processing systems and because of that their refund times were extended. I suspect that while you, and possibly many other taxpayers received errant information off a computer generated message, I suspect the bulk of taxpayers using that perk received the correct information.

I tell clients, paying or otherwise, that the refunds are generally taking

10 days, maybe less, maybe more. The exact timing of any specific refund depends on a variety of factors and isn't under anyone's control, really. It's highly likely the computer is queued with an "expected refund date" when the return is accepted by the IRS computer and not necessarily updated for delays that are global to the system or specific to that return.

The point is to not expect anything based on a computer generated message. Many times it's accurate. Some times it's not. That's the nature of a computer program built by humans.

Reread my previous post - your payment is probably not going to come in until next Wednesday. See

I recommend writing to your Congresscritter as being the most likely way of affecting anything. (Note that "most likely" doesn't imply anything like "likely".)

Seth

I don't have any inside knowledge of how the IRS operates, but I can speculate that the unusually large size of your refund may trigger a requirement for a human review of your return before the funds are disbursed. If true, your refund could be delayed for some unknown interval.

The "Where's My Refund" application could not be expected to consider such rare contingencies.

that the unusually large size of your refund may trigger a requirement for a human review of your return before the funds are disbursed. If true, your refund could be delayed for some unknown interval.

Yes, that is plausible, and indeed I would welcome the knowledge that a large refund would trigger such additional scrutiny.

contingencies.

I disagree.

If all the app does is, "Most people whose returns are submitted by date get their refunds by date ," then it's a stupid app that they shouldn't have bothered to write. They could have accomplished the same thing with a static HTML table.

Making it an app implies to the user that it has some sort of access to the actual data affecting the timeline of that particular user's refund. Apparently, it doesn't. Y'all seem to think that's reasonable, but as someone who's been designing and implementing computer software for over two decades, I think it's just stupid.

If indeed there is a rule that triggers additional scrutiny for refunds above a certain size, then at they very least they could have programmed that rule into the app.

That would be the first step down a slippery slope. If there were an automated review based on refund size, it could lead to requests for programming checks for deductions above a certain size or percentage of AGI, unusually large medical expenses, unmatched W-2 incomes, etc.

As more and more checks were added, it would become slower and slower, probably too slow for an online, web-based feature. It would also duplicate the logic that already exists in the code that the IRS already uses to screen out questionable returns for human review.

Not a program I would want to work on. (I'm a retired programmer, circa

1966-2009).

already uses to screen out questionable returns for human review.

Right. So if the IRS already has code to determine whether a return needs additional scrutiny, then they are presumably running that code over the return data very quickly after it is eFiled.

If so, then that code can set a flag in a database somewhere that says, "This return requires additional scrutiny." In fact, the code probably already *is* setting that flag in that database, because otherwise how would the people who do the additional scrutiny know which returns to look at?

And since they're clearly already flipping that bit somewhere, there's no reason why they can't give the "Where's my refund?" app access to that bit so that it can tell the user if his/her return is being reviewed, or at the very least give the user a more realistic date for when the refund will be available.

In other words, you're saying that the IRS can't do something which they're essentially already doing; they're just doing it and then lying to taxpayers about it.

No, I think it takes a lot longer to run that code, and that it is run much later, well after the end of the filing season. I've never been audited, but I have had a few returns where the IRS sent me a computer-generated letter questioning some specific item that they considered dubious. I did not receive those letters until close to a year after the returns were filed.

For example, they can't check your return for unreported W-2 income until they have received and processed all 50 states' 941 and 944 reports. That, all by itself, is a huge amount of data to be processed. Those reports aren't even due in to the IRS until 1/31 each year.

All this batch processing takes place on old mainframes, and the IRS is known for being far behind the state of the art when it comes to information technology.

The problem here is that neither you nor I know exactly how the IRS process works, so we are assuming how we think it works. You know what they say about the word ass/u/me...

much later, well after the end of the filing season. I've never been audited, but I have had a few returns where the IRS sent me a computer-generated letter questioning some specific item that they considered dubious. I did not receive those letters until close to a year after the returns were filed.

they have received and processed all 50 states' 941 and 944 reports. That, all by itself, is a huge amount of data to be processed. Those reports aren't even due in to the IRS until 1/31 each year.

known for being far behind the state of the art when it comes to information technology.

process works, so we are assuming how we think it works. You know what they say about the word ass/u/me...

Audit potential code is run after filing season. Fraud potential code is run during return processing.

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote

Seems you are getting worked up over no big deal, right?

You have to remember, this is the government we're talking about and dealing with. The old phrase of "It's close enough for government work" is as alive and well today as when it was coined some 3000+ years ago.

There is no law that requires them to tell anyone when a refund might be sent or received. So if they lead you to believe that you'll get your refund on a certain day, no law has been broken if they end up being wrong.

You can complain, but they're not going to change their systems to your satisfaction.

I really wish you would stop being so patronizing. And please do not patronize me even further by claiming that you are not.

I am, frankly, more "worked up" over the manner with which you have disagreed with me in this thread than I am over its subject. What makes this newsgroup truly unique is the civil discourse. It is disturbing to see that civility violated.

I, for one, adamantly disagree with the attitude that we shouldn't speak out against government stupidity, or stupidity in general, merely because it's not surprising.

Just because it is not terribly unusual for the government to do stupid things, doesn't mean we should take it lying down.

Improvement only happens when people demand it. Which is not to say that it always happens when people demand it -- it often doesn't -- but some chance of improvement is better than none.

You, of course, have the right to disagree, but one would hope that you could do so civilly.