Chip & pin



Would depend on bank - probably three wrong PIN's in a row (not necessarily at same ATM) the card is 'blocked' and if a ATM, the card is 'swallowed'. And if a card is 'swallowed' the bank may insist on a re-issue and payment of lost card fee (I had a bit of brain fade one day and had both ATM and credit cards swallowed - and that is what happened).
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I have a distant memory of a policeman being jailed when he insisted somebody had taken money out of his account:-(
I also have a distant memory of a QC eventually being able to disclose something he had kept secret as he feared it would bring the banking system crashing down. He disclosed that at one major bank at least there were only 3 sets in PIN numbers in use.
pete
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Are you thinking of John Munden?
"John Munden, as you may recall, was one of our local police constables, who complained about six phantom withdrawals on his account with the Halifax Building Society when he returned from holiday in Greece. Their response was to have him prosecuted and convicted for attempting to obtain money by deception."
Discussed here:-
<http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ids/dotdot/misc/titbits/phantom_ATM_withdrawals .html?
--
Bill

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wrote:

Alas my memory is not that good but it does sound familiar. I can remember interesting aspects of life but names and places do not stay with me long.
pete
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I met him once, we had some lengthy discussions, his name is engraved in my memories!! Although I only heard about his credit card problems some years after they occurred.
--
Bill

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From 1994: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/wcf.html ('Simple examples', point 3)
Theo
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On 08 Oct 2012 23:15:48 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos

Crikey! From 1994 and yet sometimes when I am driving I forget where I am going and even worse I often do not remember actually where I am and I have to ask my wife if we have crossed the Orwell Bridge.
pete
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Time has come when PIN's should be five digit (Decades ago Post Office engineers figured that 5 digit numbers were as much as people can handle - hence letters on dials in the large cities - so people should be able to handle 5 digit PIN's).
And customers should be able to change PIN's or disable cards via internet banking, and disable cards via telephine banking.
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On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 13:28:33 -0700, peterwn wrote:

Why use numbers - something a vast proportion of people find problematic ? I still think the idea I saw 20 years ago, or thereabouts (on "Tomorrows World" ?) where your "PIN" is actually a sequence of presses related to faces.
Nowadays, it would be possible to supply your bank with (say) 10 pictures of people you know - say family, friends. And associate each picture with a series of facts. When you need to access your account, you are challenged with a selection of faces, and a fact. Because the chances of a thief picking great aunt edna's picture out, as a reply to "Who met Churchill in 1944" are as high as to be practically impossible.
However, in the same way we have the unemployed we are prepared to pay for, we have the security we are prepared to pay for.
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wrote:

The current system is poor but I have a feeling that your scheme could make it trivial for someone who knows the victim well to access their account.
The same goes for all the 'memorable information' that banks think improves security.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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That's really the problem. There was a rather similar story told on yesterday's Moneybox programme, but about NatWest. The customer had discovered multiple withdrawals of £50 or £100 had been made from his account, adding up to quite a lot.
He reported them as fraudulent, and the bank said they had been made over the counter at various branches without a PIN, under the bank's system of "emergency withdrawals".
It was obvious that it wasn't him that did it, but they refused to reimburse him, all the way up to the moment when they found it was going to be the top story on Moneybox. One wonders how many times they refuse to reimburse, but it *isn't* the top story on Moneybox or Money Mail.
--
Les

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5/pickpockets-pin-safe-barc...

"retired professor", aren't they sometimes a bit absent minded ?
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5/pickpockets-pin-safe-barc...

Where does it say that he made a purchase? The article states the opposite: "... Black says he couldn't possibly have passed on his Barclaycard's pin to the thieves, as Barclays has alleged, because he doesn't know it, or ever use it. He says he only uses the card to make holiday bookings over the phone, which doesn't require the use of a pin. Barclays has confirmed that he has not made any chip and pin purchases using the card."

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wrote:

But later on he claims the PIN is not an obvious number such as a date of birth or something as simple as 1234. How could he make such a statement if he doesn't know what the PIN is? This apparent inconsistency made me a bit suspicious about his story.
Chris
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as underneath :

You are overlaying other people with your own ways and assuming they must behave like you - probably this user as he had no use for the pin didnt even bother to change it from the bank issued number. Therefor he would know the pin if he looked it up from the issuing time and would also know that the Bank would not issue a guessable sequence in the first place even if he couldnt find the original issue pin.
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What he probably meant was he hadn't memorised the PIN. Which he wouldn't needed to have done, given that as the bank admits, he never ever used the card for PIN transactions. However when he subsequently checked the number, having arrived home following the theft he saw it wasn't an "obvious" number the thieves might easily guess.
To me, the only questionable aspects are why, if he only ever used the card for telephone transactions from home, he carried it about with him, and why he ever opened the PIN notification. Had this been intact and in his possesion he would have had proof positive the PIN must have been compromised without his knowledge.
michael adams
...
This apparent

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michael adams wrote:

I don't know whether it's the situation here, but with some cards you have to 'activate' them by putting them in a terminal and entering the PIN.

Me too.
Adrian
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On Mon, 08 Oct 2012 19:25:02 +0100, michael adams wrote:

It was suggested a while back that upon receiving a card, you should scratch the CVV number off it (after memorizing it). It's not needed for C +P usage, and removing it means anyone handling your card can't clone it for cardholder not present transactions.
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wrote as underneath :

Interesting - I hadnt heard of that trick - is the CW no. used for anything else that might make you regret altering the card? Assuming of course you dont forget the no.. C+
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On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:26:42 +0100, Charlie+ wrote:

No, it's *only* use is for CNP transactions. Really, you should never need to hand your card to anyone anyway. I can't recall where I read it now, but there was a warning a while back that you should be especially wary of situations where you are required to hand your card to someone for a C+P transaction - a lot of card fraud originates in cards that are swiped to be cloned for use in non C+P countries. The scam goes something like you hand your card over, and it gets surreptitiously swiped before going into the C+P reader.
Never ever let your card out of your sight. Restaurants are probably the riskiest places, as it's trivial to engineer a situation where you have handed over your card, and the waiter has to "go and get the machine".
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