Chip & PIN - Bin the PIN.

Without a hint of irony, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk astounded uk.finance on 16 Feb

2004 by announcing:

The current French debit card system, no. The French are also migrating to EMV, however.

So you're going to sell your bike, leathers & helmet just to try & claim a tenner back on your card?

See above ;-)

"tasty chicken" wrote

... which is why they'd use a motorcycle helmet rather than a balaclava!!

Chris Green wrote

Ermm - how much *can* you fit in that?? :-(

Chris Green wrote

Of course, the easy way around this is to make it as illegal to wear a crash helmet while *not* on the motorcycle, as it is illegal not to wear it when

*on* the motorcycle...

Seeing people running around with crash helmets on their head should be as much of a suspicious activity as running around with stockings on their head!!

20 litres or more. My previous (touring) bike used to get quite a lot more, the cashiers in the petrol stations often double checked the amount when I appeared to pay wearing a helmet.

Why, it's as much discrimination as it was discrimination preventing Sikhs from wearing their turbans. How about security people who wear crash helmets for protection? How about cycle helmets? How about ordinary hats?

"James" wrote

It sounds a little like you consider yourself to be one of the "weak-willed", and you are just making up other excuses for not wanting a PIN. Can't you just grow up instead?

"James" wrote

Well - what's the third hand for?!

"James" wrote

What message would that be? - That you are unconcerned with security, so perhaps they'd better withdraw your card?? ;-(

Chris Green wrote

That may be a valid reason - which can easily be written into the law.

Chris Green wrote

Could be same rule as for motorcycle helmets - can be worn when on bike, not when off bike..

Chris Green wrote

"Ordinary hats" don't mask the wearers face, so I don't see a problem with them - do you?

Actually, no. Most countries in the world use a PIN system that is broadly compatible with most other systems. The UK sticks out in this respect.

So how exactly will any introduction of PINs in the UK change this?

Good point. However, your motorbike has a license plate. And if it's not visible, or stolen, then you're breaking the law. If you're breaking the law, there's only a certain amount of security that the banks can employ without inconveniencing all the honest people. It's not about a perfect system: it's about risk management.

Conceded!

Squawk!

That'll be the least of their worries ...

:-)

None at all, provided that you agree to underwrite your losses.

OTOH those of us able to remember a four digit number will I suspect be happy with the system.

All the retailers that I have used in france witha chip+PIN system ahve a "shoe" that you put your hand into to type unseen.

Without a hint of irony, tasty chicken astounded uk.finance on 16 Feb 2004 by announcing:

The introduction is world-wide.

Without a hint of irony, "Tim" astounded uk.finance on 16 Feb 2004 by announcing:

Cycle helmets, as a rule, do not hide the face either.

Nor do turbans....

Regards, Far

Without a hint of irony, "Far" astounded uk.finance on 16 Feb 2004 by announcing:

I didn't say they did. Motorcycle helmets do, however.

So you'll outlaw ordinary hats which mask the face but not those that don't? No chance! :-) Sort of indecent exposure backwards!

I am very concerned about security, my security and the passing of liability for fraud on to me. PINS are good news for the banks and retailers but when credit card companies start chasing up their fraud losses due to PIN (missuse, or negligence), then a lot of victims will be treated as suspects.

If you didn't have a PIN with a credit card, and it should be your choice then you or hooded crooks wouldn't be able to withdraw cash.

Weak willed people maybe a bad term - vulnerable is probably a better choice. Anyway if your short of £500, just apply for a credit card, await your PIN, give it to a.n. other, and have them draw out money. A good albi would see you alright and then deny being negligent with your PIN.

PINS are being sent automatically without any thought for the disabled, or people with a short term memory - is this responsible? Shouldn't the banks be asking you if you want a PIN before automatic distribution.

I standby my original statement, Why should you want a PIN with a credit card if you don't wish to draw money at an ATM? It should be personal choice.

Without a hint of irony, snipped-for-privacy@tiscali.co.uk (James) astounded uk.finance on 16 Feb 2004 by announcing:

The liability will not be passed on to you unless you accept the liability by being careless with your PIN.

The cash withdrawal facility should be able to be barred seperately. The PIN will be necessary to perform a transaction once the PIN bypass concession is removed - either by the retailer or the bank.

The choice is for you not to have a credit or debit card facility. Remember that the card is the bank's property, not yours. They are entitled to attempt to protect the use of that property as they see fit.