"James" wrote
Why not with a signature? Some forgers can be extremely good at copying your signature (from the strip on back of your card).
If you think it is difficult to prove that your PIN entered by a crook was not you, then how would you prove that a "perfect" copy of your signature by a crook was also not you?? :-(
Without a hint of irony, "Tim" astounded uk.finance on 21 Feb 2004 by announcing:
Well, apparently, he'd call forensics in to examine the thumbprint on the slip.
Simple, at least by using a signature apart from arguing the toss over your signature, you can ask for forensic evidence (yours or the crooks), print will be on the shops copy of the till receipt!
Shft of liability is the one thing PINs acheive more than anything.
James
Have a look at RE: ATM Machines using the Google Groups search facility.
"James" wrote
You can just as easily "argue the toss" over a PIN ...
"James" wrote
Do you carry around a pad of ink to roll your thumb across before placing it very carefully on each&every till receipt you sign? Even if *you* do - I strongly suspect that any crook would *not* !!
In all likelihood - unless the person signing was trying extremely hard to do it (ie only in the cases where "you" are signing, never when the "crook" signs) - the thumb/finger print is unlikely to come out clearly on a till receipt.
And before you say "but I *always* do it properly!" - what do you expect would happen if you simply "forgot" one time? What would you expect the retailer to do if you *hadn't* placed this very clear print on the receipt?? ...
The point is that these are methods of acquiring PINS. You will never know how someone has obtained your PIN. Card issuer like insurers will start to wriggle when there is a liability question. First thing they will want to know is how someone got hold of your PIN. You will be asked this question.
Go and shop in safeways at least once. Then you will be able to point to their completely open pin pads.
That's correct, I do carry a very small pad around. If I decide to take an in-store interest free loan for example, when the shop checks my file with a Credit Reference Agency, the shop is presented with a statement saying that I will submit a signature & PRINT. No print, no fraud. My print, no fraud. Someone elses print - total protection for myself and an aid to identifying the offender. It is a very effective deterrent and stops ID theft.
Not having a PIN with a credit card and to pre-empt any future problems in shops, I've asked my card supplier that if a shop decides to make a call to my card issuer to confirm I am who I say I am then they will confirm that the person presenting the card should sign & PRINT. This is more secure than a password.
My wish list is that I hope that with the capability of Chips then when my Chipped card is entered in to a machine then rather a prompt to enter a PIN a prompt is displayed saying sign & Print. What value then a stolen card?
The pad I carry produces a perfect print every time and is endorsed by the FBI.
If I forgot my card or my pad then I couldn't purchase what I wanted there and then - I carry both together. As for prints they are normally very clear however if clarity was an issue, retailers should ask for a second print - remember this system is customer choice.
At the very least even a partial print can easily prove that it wasn't the genuine cardholder who carried out a particular transaction. This removes any liability for fraud from the cardholder. PINs do not achieve this.
James
"James" wrote
If they have an automated system, they might not even bother considering the "Notice of Correction" statement anyway!
"James" wrote
OK, so the criminal won't bother leaving their print. What security do you have now??
"James" wrote
Who is going to pay for the forensic examination of the print in case of a possible fraud?
"James" wrote
Rubbish - the criminal simply won't leave their print!
"James" wrote
Rubbish. Any "partial print" found could easily be from the till operator, or the supervisor who collected the till receipts, or the manager who looked through the receipts at the end of the day, or the police officer's mate who helped him sift through all the receipts to find yours, or ....
"James" wrote
How so? Have you tested this in the courts??
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