Chip & PIN in Saibsury's

No problem showing the URL - it's the site I was complaining about.

Oops - a big "sorry" for any offence caused. I had (wrongly, I realise, now you point out it has been referred to before) assumed the incorrect advice (aka grammatical error) had gone unnoticed. It seems to me likely that the site will be visited mostly by people needing a bit of guidance. It wouldn't be hard to imagine some people interpreting the double-negative as emphasising they should be prepared to disclose their PIN for phone etc xactions. In which case, security is jeopardised.

My "you've" (which should have continued in the same sentence as the bit you didn't quote) doesn't refer to "you" but to "one" - i.e. to whomever chose to buy the URL, but failed (IMHO) to put sufficient info up to avoid much of the guesswork which I've seen in this thread.

Yep - I was rude, and sorry for that. But not (intentionally) rude to you, only to the site.

In message , Martin writes

Perhaps I was a bit too touchy. No offence taken. All the best!

In message , Tim writes

That isnt what the Chip and Pin site says though.

Maybe not, but - because some card issuers *are* saying that - it *does* give you the excuse to repeat it to the cashier attempting to handle your card!

Presumably that will be written into the chip the first time it's used in a reader with access to the hotlist

DG

In message , Tim writes

I dont think any card issuer who is participating in Chip and Pin *is* saying that though, not to the extent of prohibiting the hand over of the card, or even recommending that the card not be handed over.

You quote form your memory the words "*you* should place.." which is not sufficiently precise.

Can you recheck your memory or find the *exact* wording?

In message , Tim writes

Wont the card chip be told that the card upon which it is resident is 'hot' and therefore lock the card? (I dont know that this is the case, its just a thought)

Also, having insufficient funds isnt enough to declare a card *hot* which AIUI is a term reserved for cards being *misused*.

Finally, if online verification is not available as a result of the merchant services failing, then the retailer wont be at risk.

The Chip and PIN site is hardly a reliable source of information; they still give misleading information about France.

Further to Sainsbury's: our local one STILL doesn't have PIN terminals (they're now due on April 19) but I was in another one at lunchtime today which does have them. I watched the woman in front, who presented her credit/debit card together with a loyalty card. The cashier took both, and swiped both through her normal keyboard slot. The woman was them asked to enter her PIN number [sic]. I then had my couple of items scanned, and I positioned myself at the PIN terminal (which was already displaying 'Insert card'. I held the card over the slot, expecting it to be snatched from my hand; but no, I was graciously allowed to insert it myself, and entered the PIN. So these terminals DO work the way they're intended.

I was also pleased to see the pad was sensibly placed. I was in Boots last week and it was impossible to turn the supporting bracket to make the terminal face the customer. These things have been used elsewhere for years, yet we have to act as if we've developed something new, and are incapable of learning from others.

Chris

In message , Chris writes

I didnt say it was. In this regard I am talking about individual card issuers.

I dont doubt you, I know there are mistakes on the site. But what is the misleading info to which you refer?

Under 'Using your card abroad' it says "In France, although French customers use PIN already, UK cardholders will continue to use signature for some time." I think it may have been modified slightly, but it still gives a misleading impression. While literally true, it could also be said that cardholders will continue to use signature for some time" in the UK, as not everywhere has yet got the terminals, and not everyone has got a new card. Also, when I was in Belgium at Christmas, I used my PIN for a majority of purchases, but not all terminals had been upgraded there either, so I still had to sign. The irony is that the very first time I was able to use a PIN-enabled card was last September - in France! I used my cards in restaurants and a hairdresser.

So the wording could be better.

Chris

In message , Chris writes

Thank you for that. I hope you dont mind if my conclusion is that what you have posted is insufficient to cast global doubt on the accuracy of chip and pin site.

Layezee wrote: > I thought the whole idea about Chip & PIN is that you

No, the point of Chip and Pin is the reduce the amount of money the banks lose from credit card fraud.

Of course the till sees the credit card number - it has to submit it to the bank so that it can collect the money from the customer's account.

Where is the customer king?

No card issuers are saying you shouldn't hand your card to a cashier for security reasons, as this is what currently happens with mag striped cards. Unless you've seen a contract for Chip and Pin cards which now forbids this.

Some cashiers aren't cashiers just while they're waiting to hear back from Cambridge University.

Fortnum and Mason - the Royal Grocer?

It's not necessary for the till to do that, the card reader/ verifier can do it itself, merely telling the till the transaction is authorised or declined.

DG

authorised

The card reader is connected to the till, and the till is online. The card reader isn't online by itself.