Extraordinary abuse by Tiscali.

It does indeed mean that. It doesn't, however, mean that the instructions have to be accompanied by your signature.

No it's not (necessarily so). What you describe may be the result of a mistake and, if it were, it would not be illegal and no amount of posturing will make it so.

I know this is widely cross-posted but one of the groups is uk.legal. It's not uncommon there for someone to ask a legal question, be given the correct answer and then try and argue that the law is what they think it should be. If you want to argue that the law should be changed, that's fine, but there's no point in trying to argue in uk.legal that something is illegal when it's not.

Mike.

That's not what I said at all. I don't accept for a moment that they

Brian

Of course it there was dishonesty involved you would not admit it anyway, and if you were the whistle blowing type they would not employ you. I doubt you would publicly incriminate yourself.

I must admit that my statement was wrong. Thank you for correction.

In message , Peter Crosland writes

I get the impression that "habeas corpus" has been :-(

Mike Mann posted

Oh, come on, Mike. Instructions to perform a transaction *always* have to be accompanied by an authentication. That's why cheques have to be signed. Similarly in this case the obvious authentication is a signature.

It is clear that a DD should not be set up without a contract having been agreed between the accountholder and the organisation. The organisation should then have an instrument signed by the account holder.

Surely the bank should insist on seeing this instrument before honouring the DD, just as it insists on seeing a signed cheque before it makes a chequing transfer.

If the law is as you say, then it should be changed.

David

Contact your own bank and cancel the ddm Tiscali have set up, write to Tiscali advising them that you did not authorise a ddm to be set up and you have cancelled it at the bank and ask them to confirm in writing that they have cancelled it at thier end, as a previous poster said copy your bank into the letter and problem solved.

Direct debits without signature are a legitimate facility just as credit card payments without your signature are, but mistakes (and fraud) are possible, this is what the direct debit guarantee is for.

HTH Arfie

I have left a message for my bank to to cancel the DD via their online 'messaging' system, although I am not sure it worked as I have had no reply from them. I think it might have been better to have ignored the letter and waited to see what happened, after all it is only when they debit my account that they are 'in trouble' so to speak. My house has not been burgaled? so to speak they have just twisted the door knob to see if they can get in. Its like a policeman watching someone trying car doors to see if they are open, he can't arrect them untill they enter the car and remove something. I am more concerned about Tiscali's attitude than anything else, I have had no letter of explaination, apology or anything. I was actually slightly worried that I had unknowingly ordered something whilst browsing their site as I had been looking at the cost of broadband, however my browser history shows I had not visited their site in the previous two weeks. Often you have to go part way through the order process to see the terms and conditions. I was told that the number I was told to ring was for their 'smart talk' product which is 'free to join' so it is possible I might have signed up for a 'free' product. Yesterday as a test I attempted to go through the signing up process but I was unable to as I could not understand what it was all about, it seems highly unlikely that I managed to sign up before and as I said my browser history shows no visits to a Tiscali site in the two weeks prior. And would something 'free to join' require a direct debit mandate? Look at the product youself if you like on the tiscali site. Anyway this is a red herring and I better fire off my letter tomorrow. I know Tiscali are born liars, they have told me several times someone would call me back and I have never recieved any call. Its just worrying that they can do things like this.

"NWMA" wrote in message news:xg9%b.20700$ft.16608@newsfe1-win...

Yes I realised after I sent it, sorry :-)

Is it not? That must be an agreement by the banks then

Yes they should, and you can put this to them, but chances are they wont :-(

snip

Apparently they don't. Some years ago I lost the use of my right hand temporarily and couldn't write a cheque let alone sign it. I contacted my bank about this problem and they said provided my cheque guarantee card number was on the back it didn't need a signature and they would honour it. And they did!

John, you don't understand. On the tiscali website now, you click 'ok' to a huge agreement you're meant to read, fill out your bank details, and then agree to set up a direct debit. This is all in Tiscali's internet-logs.

However you're saying they've just basically done it without you clicking any 'i agree, set my dd up' boxes on their website; so get in contact with them through special delivery, your bank, and keep a copy of the letter for yourself as well - no contact through phone.

You'll likely get 'something' out of it

I believe you when you say that happened but it would appear to conflict with the "Rules"!!

The purpose (obviously) of a Cheque Guarantee Card is to guarantee the Cheque. It is a requirement, when using that CGC, that the Cheque is signed in front of the Cashier & it does match the signature on the back of the Card!! I.O.W. If a matching signature has NOT been signed in front of the Cashier, the Cheque is NOT Guaranteed & it may not be honoured!!

They can be so tight on this that I had a Bank Cashier refuse to cash my Cheque!! Although I had waited until I had her attention, before attempting to sign, she was then distracted & looked away at the precise moment that I was signing!! Although she agreed that she had seen an unsigned cheque before I started & that it was obvious that it could ONLY been myself who had signed it, she was adamant that she could NOT pay it because she hadn't actually, personally witnessed my signing!! I eventually had to sign it a 2nd time to get my money!!

Regards, John

'Your instruction' in total is you clicking the 'set up DD' button on Tiscali's website - it's your part that sets up the DD, see?

But as I said before, you're saying you didn't do that...so they're in the wrong.

You are replying to the WRONG person!!

It was the Original Poster (OP) that was complaining about Tiscalli, not me!! I've never had any dealings with them!!

The OP asserted that he HADN'T been to any Agreement Site, but that Tiscalli had set up a DD without his knowledge & using information that hadn't been supplied by him to Tiscalli. The OP asserts that Tiscalli had looked up some very old defunct records that they had acquired when Tiscalli had taken over another Company.

In this situation, all the T&Cs in the world are just not relevant!!

Regards, John

I think you are either replying to the wrong post or taking my post out of context!!

I was just following on from a query raised by the Original Poster (OP). I have never had any dealings with Tiscalli!!

The OP asserted that he HADN'T been to any Agreement Site (hence had NEVER clicked on any "set up DD" button), but that Tiscalli had set up a DD without his knowledge & using information that hadn't been supplied by him to Tiscalli. The OP asserts that Tiscalli had looked up some very old defunct records that they had acquired when Tiscalli had taken over another Company.

However, part of the point that I was making was that the DirectDebit Web-Site (within their FAQs) clearly require that the Company claiming money MUST forward "Your Instructions" to the Bank. They cannot simply advise the Bank that "Instructions have been received" without forwarding the appropriate "Instructions". Since anyone can go to a Web-Site & click on buttons, I really do not understand how that simple act can be adequate evidence to the Bank of "Your Instructions".

Regards, John

A written pen and ink signature isn't required though. For an electronic direct debit setup, "signing" is often done either by reading the terms and conditions, filling in your financial details and hitting submit, or agreeing verbaly to the setting up of a direct debit, and then providing details.

Why not? AOL's "free trial" requires the continuous credit card authority to be established before you can get something from them for free.