ID cards - who benefits

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ID Cards - Who Benefits?

The government recently published its draft Identification Card [ID card] bill, and hopes to bring in legislation later this year to introduce the cards. They claim that polls show about 80% of people are in favour of ID cards. However, the same surveys show people don't want ID cards if they have to pay for them which we will, either directly when getting a new driving licence or passport, or through increased taxes. Currently the estimated cost is £35 and it's likely to be more.

On top of this, most people are not aware of the full proposals contained in the draft legislation, which include the creation of a National Identity Register, containing information about everyone over

16 who is in the UK for more than 3 months.

This information will include all names ever used, date and place of birth, all addresses ever lived at and the period when you lived there, physical characteristics which could be used to identify you (including biometric identifiers), nationality and immigration status. The Register will also include a list of other numbers allocated to you (i.e. National Insurance and NHS no's) and will be linked to a central national number. Meanwhile, separately, an NHS central database is already in the process of being set up and run by British Telecom, and within the next 18 months all your prescriptions and medical information will be entered into it.

Compulsion

The Government claims that the scheme would be voluntary initially. But look a little closer and it becomes clear this is false. Firstly if you renew or apply for a Driving Licence or Passport after 2007 there will only be an ID card version, so you will have to ?apply' to be entered on the Register - unless you want to give up travel and driving. You will have to pay extra for this (£35 at least) and attend an appointment for a biometric scan (fingerprints, iris scan etc.). Secondly the bill contains a provision for people to be added to the National Identity Register if information from other sources is available. So anyone could be added whether they like it or not.

Also the draft bill contains provision for registration to be made compulsory at a later date, and states clearly that this is the ultimate intention. When this happens the state can require you to attend to apply to be registered, and if you fail to do so you face a penalty of up to £2500. Not just once, but every time you are sent a notice to register.

Who can look at data?

A range of authorities including Police, Inland Revenue, Customs & Excise, Security Services, Immigration Service and Dept for Work Pensions will have the right to access your file. And the government will have the right to cross check your record with any records held on you by your bank, insurance companies and by credit checking agencies. It is likely there will be data sharing with other countries such as the USA too.

Both the private and public sector may have the right to look at cards and make checks on you. Whilst an entry must be made every time anyone checks your record, you have no right to see this ?audit trail'.

Big Brother

Even if you trust this government (and not many people do), can you be sure that you can trust all future governments. What if the BNP end up running your local council? Can you trust the private companies running the scheme; the data inputters with all your personal details; any hackers breaking into the system?

The loss of personal privacy fundamentally alters society. You may feel ?you've nothing to lose if you've nothing to hide', but do you really want others to be able to access your personal details such as who you previously lived with, what illnesses you've had in the past, whether you had a drink problem 10 years ago, your arrest for shoplifting or drugs as a teenager etc.

Penalties

Once registration becomes compulsory, as well as the penalty for failing to register, people face a range of penalties for failing to comply with the new regulations, including failure to notify authorities about a damaged or defective card; failure to notify the Govt of any change in personal circumstances eg a change of address (up to £1000 fine); failing to attend an appointment for a biometrics scan (up to £1000 fine). In fact you can be required to attend a biometric scan for any change to your entry on the register, for example if you get married, or simply want to correct an error on your record.

Terrorism

Blunkett says ID cards are needed to protect us from terrorism, but even he recently admitted that their role in counter terrorism will be marginal. Anyone in the UK for less than 3 months will not have to have an ID card so any potential terrorists could use short stay documents instead. Most of the September 11th hijackers were travelling under their own names and didn't have criminal records, so ID cards would have made no difference. The USA has no plans to introduce ID cards for its citizens, with even Bush saying that the cards are too illiberal to be accepted by the US public. Meanwhile, Spain has ID cards, but that didn't stop trains being blown up there.

In any event, why the fixation on terrorism? Many more people are killed every year at work; on the roads; waiting for operations; from the effects of pollution and climate change. Do these people not matter? Or is it just that there are not enough profits or political benefits to be gained from preventing these deaths?

Access to Services

Aside from terrorism, the Government also claims that the cards will save money by preventing illegal immigration and benefit fraud. But only £50m of benefits are lost a year through identity fraud - so spending at least £3.1bn to set up the ID cards scheme is hardly cost effective, even in their own terms.

They also claim ID cards will prevent ?health tourism', but what the scheme actually means is that anyone without an ID card will be left without access to healthcare. The problem of waiting lists and delays needs to be resolved by re-distribution of resources (e.g. the billions wasted on war), not leaving people to die on the streets.

False ID

The government plans to make carrying false ID a criminal offence. This is most likely to affect women fleeing domestic violence or others fleeing persecution, who might use a new identity to prevent their attackers from tracking them down. With all personal details held on a centralised computer belonging to a private company, it wont be hard for those fleeing violence to be traced, and if they try to sidestep this by using a different identity they may face up to 10 years in prison.

Why the push for ID cards?

In the aftermath of Sept 11, Bush presented the EU with a list of 48 demands, including secure machine readable passports with biometrics. Yet the US govt has no intention of requiring it's own citizens to have such passports or ID cards.

Also there is pressure from the companies making this technology, who try to persuade us all that this is what we need to make our lives secure. They, of course, stand to reap the £3.1 billion that it will cost to set the system up, not to mention running costs on top of that. On top of this they get to keep records on everyone, a handy database to keep tabs on anyone who decides to fight for their rights at work or in their communities.

Meanwhile, these are some of same companies responsible for refugees and other migrants leaving their home countries. Western multinationals make billions from the weapons used in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. They make billions from the eviction of people to make way for oil fields, mines and cash crops for use in the West. They make billions from relocating their factories to the Third World to ensure a plentiful supply of cheap labour with poor safety conditions. And now the companies are set to make millions from exploiting people's fears of scarcity of housing, health care and benefits here.

But how many people would want to leave their homes and families to live in a strange (often hostile) country if they weren't facing the threat of wars, or being without adequate means of subsistence? Multinational Corporations profit all round and set us fighting each other, instead of fighting back against the causes of poverty and oppression, and struggling for justice and freedom around the world.

Even when the odds seem impossible we have to fight to defend our communities from the interests of the wealthy and powerful. It's when we stop fighting that we've lost, because Governments and corporations know they can get away with whatever suits them and makes them the most profits.

We need to create a society based on people's real needs, where ordinary people control their own lives, communities and workplaces. In the mean time we need to resist ID cards and all other methods which make it easier for government and big business to control us.

For a detailed guide to the proposed ID card legislation go to

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Reply to
the_muse
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Excellent posting - thank you.

Reply to
Robert Campbell

Seconded.

Reply to
Harry The Horse

Thirded. :)

Reply to
Jack

Or there's Stand:

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Reply to
Alex

The best quote about ID cards IMHO was from David Blunket who said

"If you're against ID cards you're an intellectual pigmy"

I couldn't help thinking,

"what if you were a Pigmy, does disagreeing with ID cards make you top Pigmy??"

Reply to
Wildcard

Is that a racist comment?

Reply to
rob.

The IT companies that will supply the computers that won't work.

Reply to
Steve

Look we don't want Pigmy's roaming around the country unhindered, even intellectual ones! I'm convinced ID cards will help us track down just who these small bodied people really are. They will no longer be able to hide behind good, decent, law abiding Labour voters.

Reply to
David George

ID cards are a form of Taxation under a differnt name.

125 to get one, 2500 fine if you dont.

You already need to use your passport to open a bank account or even get a job (employer must keep a copy on file - or similar document) so the ID card actually acheives very little, but is a nice income for the government who recieve what the charge for the card.

Reply to
Clive

The government could always make the cards free. Then charge you an extra

125 per person in taxes to pay for it. Would that make people happier? Would it make them take better care of the card?

Martin <

Reply to
Martin Davies

Yes there is a cost for the card and the introduction but it is certainly not 125 per person.

According to the govenment claims there are huge savings to be gain in terms of

Prevent illegal immigration, Prevent illegal working, Aid anti-terrorism measures, Tackle identity theft, Reduce benefit fraud and abuse of public,

Thus according to the govenment, the card will provide sustantial benefits and savings for them.

Will children need ID cards? They already require a passport?

If so, we have a population of around 60 million. If the cost is 125 per person that is a total cost of around 7.5 Billion. This will more than cover the introdution of the scheme, the technology, etc etc.

If any other organisation wanted to introduce a card, they you would not be expected to fund it. For instance, if your employer introduces an ID pass, would you be prepared to pay 125 for it deducted from your wages? Your bank changes your card to a new format (chip & pin) which requires new cards, ATMS, retailers terminals etc? Would you expect to foot the bill for the chance? or your bank to supply you with a new card without charge?

Due to the sheer numbers involved the cost of the technology etc is covered very quickly (i.e should be a smaller cost per person). This is without doubt a tax collection method.

Reply to
Clive

Thankfully Blunkett has decided to quit and spend more time with his women so Blair will have to find someone else to perpetuate this ridiculous nonsense.

Reply to
Alex

Almost certainly a cost to the economy, illegal immigrants contribute a lot by doing jobs that otherwise wouldn' be economic and keeping down costs.

How does that work then? if employers don't care about paying taxes, no ID card is going to change that.

Details please of how this reduces costs?

Unlikely, the NHS IT project is costing considerably more than that, and there's no way pensioners, anyone in reciept of means tested benefits etc. or children will be charged, or if they are, they'll need their benefits increased, so the actual number of people paying will be considerably less.

Jim.

Reply to
Jim Ley

The security aspects of the ID card - funnily, I have not yet come across a country with an ID card system that claims it has reduced any of the items claimed for this new card. Cats now - they aid anti-terrorism. Since I have had at least one cat in the house, no terrorists have attacked the house. So they must be effective, right?

I can't for the life of me see how an ID card will have any greater impact on anti-terrorism than a driving licence or passport would.

As for the bank introducing new cards - you are already paying for it as a customer. They can't charge non-customers to pay for your card, so charge you in decreased interest on your money, higher charges and higher interest rates when you borrow. Might take a few years to pay for perhaps.

Reply to
Martin Davies

And for every illegal immigrant doing a job, there's a British person on the dole who could have been doing that job if the government were actually serious about preventing 'scrounging'. So illegal immigrants taking low-paid jobs is a huge cost to the economy.

Of course ID cards won't make the slightest bit of difference to that, particularly when we have a government that seems utterly unable to kick out known illegal immigrants: finding them isn't the problem. Mark

Reply to
mmaker

In message , Jim Ley writes

And details please of why this didn't work in Madrid.

Reply to
Richard Miller

As a non-taxpayer, that would suit me just fine :-)

Chris

Reply to
Chris Blunt

Indeed as as we can see from France and Spain etc who have ID cards and have had them for a long time, none of the above are seen in their countries....not.

Reply to
Tumbleweed

No country has chip-and-PIN cards. Switzerland has effectively forge-proof cards, however. Picture at

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The current French card is illustrated at
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One problem with it is that, to the average British immigration inspector or policeman, "all Algerians look alike" and they come over here in droves with stolen or bought IDs and there's no system to check that the subject of that ID is living in France with his replacement card. Britain (and Ireland) face the challenge that there is no control of residency. In most continental countries, new residents need to report to the police or the city hall within a few days or weeks of arrival and show their ID card or passport. Unlike such countries as Switzerland and Holland, the UK authorities don't even know who their citizens are, largely because of the vagueness of nationality law (dependent upon numerous factors, and registration is not one of them; whereas a child born abroad of Swiss parents will lose Swiss nationality if (1) s/he also possesses another one and (2) fails to register with the consular section or move to Switzerland and register with a commune by age 22).

In Belgium and many other countries, police and other officials may stop anyone on the street and demand proof of identity. Excuses for not having a passport or ID card in your possession are few (proof of lost card; receipt from an embassy while awaiting visa, etc.) So long as a person walking about in Britain can refuse or fail to show proof of identity on the spot, control of immigration will be hindered.

Issuance of ID cards will likely be only the first step. Later will be amendment to the right to stop and interrogate; and that will probably include an obligation to have a driver license and car papers in one's possession while driving.

Reply to
Biwah

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