Chip and Pin - no more signatures

Tiddy Ogg wrote: ...

Contrary to what we're told by the banks, these (C&P) cards are *not* in fact secure overall, and the main effect is to force liability onto the card holder, on pain of being accused of fraud. Which has the dual benefit of saving the banks money and making the system *look* successful.

They keep telling us about the French, and how fraud dropped. I believe it did, then rose back to about the same level as soon as the fraudsters worked out the new system: that's the bit they don't tell us.

The crux is this: if someone in Mumbai claims you signed a card chit, it's often quite easy to prove they're wrong. If someone in Mumbai claims you entered your PIN: well now, that's a whole new ballgame; can you prove you didn't let it slip sometime, somewhere, somehow?

I'm suggesting your writing off of the skills and abilities of large sections of the population is offensive yes. You're not being considerate, you're being patronising. I'm sick of being treated like an idiot because of my disability, and I'm sure most other people are too!

So I shouldn't mention something that is a problem for some disabled people because other people who are disabled such that they don't suffer that same problem might find it patronising?

According to this webpage:

"directors of six charities - Help the Aged, Age Concern, Citizens Advice, the RNIB and the Alzheimer's Society - urged banks to get a grip with the situation and start promoting chip and signature more widely."

Presumably those charities are all patronising the people they claim to be helping too?

Perhaps you're being treated like an idiot for reasons other than your disability?

you're not disabled. End of you patronising w*****!

"Mike Scott" wrote

Can they prove you *did*? ;-)

In message , Biscit writes

Eye-sight? Some of the lcd displays that we are meant to read are far from fantastic, mind you many slips you are asked to sign can be pretty lousy too.

Lots of people seem to be suffering from liabilityaversionitis syndrome.

Yes, if it's a mobile or a DECT phone. Desktop phones are generally OK for me as they have larger numbers and are well lit. The issue with PIN keypads is that they are generally small, you need to be able to read the (dim) LCD display and they are often in rather dim places and/or the sides prevent them being well lit.

I can usually get it right, especially if I've used the same pad before but it's often a bit hit and miss.

I know, I know I shouldn't feed the troll!

No, already discounted. You're at no greater disadvantage than signing a piece of paper anyway.

At 14:33:14 on 10/10/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:

How did your card get to Mumbai? And did you report it lost/stolen?

Perhaps, but you should answer simple questions which are written in plain English without resorting to abuse, otherwise you look like a poor loser.

The value of the figures depends on these other figures. If C&P has cut face-to-face fraud and everything else stays the same - then good. If it has just driven the fraud into other transactions - then its value is less impressive.

For exampl it has been suggested that increased exposure of PINs leads to an increase of PIN fraud, ie cash machines. The other figures will help to confirm or deny this.

In message , Tiddy Ogg writes

1995: £83.3m 1996: £97.1m (+17%) 1997: £122.0m (+26%) 1998: £135.0m (+11%) 1999: £188.4m (+40%) 2000: £317.0m (+68%) 2001: £411.5m (+30%) 2002: £424.6m (+3%) 2003: £420.4m (-1%) 2004: £504.8m (+20%)

This is what the press release at says, on page

3:

"There will still be some instances where cardholders will continue to sign even after 14 February 2006. These include: o purchases in outlets which are not yet using chip and PIN technology o purchases made on cards which have not yet been upgraded to chip and PIN o purchases made abroad in countries which have not yet upgraded to chip and PIN o disabled customers using a chip and signature card instead of a chip and PIN card will always continue to sign"

AIUI, though, a shop will be at liberty to *voluntarily* refuse to accept C&S (though, conceivably, that might bring them into conflict with disability law - IANAL).

Best Regards, Alex.

In message , Poldie writes

Eh? How can you check what you are signing is for the right amount then?

In message , snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk writes

So how do you check the amount on the slip then?

>

In message , Mike Scott writes

And you havent told us that the UK system is a different system.

Their argument will be that their system is foolproof and nobody could possible find/guess the 9999 possibilities.

Putrid poetry, dismal doggerel, extrava-stanzas...

Might just be because I didn't know :-) But I don't think it's relevant to the point - fraud is bound to rise as criminals get to grips with new security measures (it's hardly going to fall, is it?)