Chip and Pin - no more signatures

Er, yes, I was arguing *for* chip+sig as well! :-)

So what? I don't dial telephone numbers by touch typing, I look at the numbers. It's odds on that the Chip+PIN keypads won't have the same layout as all other keypads (they can't, others vary already) so I can't guess where the keys are, I have to be able to read them.

At 15:22:57 on 11/10/2005, Mike Scott delighted uk.finance by announcing:

That you can't read...

At 20:08:23 on 10/10/2005, Alex Butcher delighted uk.finance by announcing:

I don't see why they would want to refuse to accept it.

At 16:05:01 on 11/10/2005, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

And the question that poses is how do you see the receipt? There is invariably a customer display whether or not you sign or use PIN simply because there are still customers who pay cash and still need to know how much to pay.

At 16:08:23 on 11/10/2005, snipped-for-privacy@isbd.co.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

They will be the same layout as all other PINpads.

IIRC, there's some rule that means that if a retailer doesn't process the card according to specifications, then *they're* liable in the event of fraud.

Now, the only question is whether processing cards that are C&S without the PIN is within spec (obviously, processing C&P cards without the PIN isn't, once the card issuer mandates it). I would hope so, but...

Best Regards, Alex.

At 18:27:47 on 11/10/2005, Alex Butcher delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Yes. The rule is that the link in the chain that is not EMV capable is liable for any fraud. C+S is a valid EMV cardholder verification method.

If it weren't, there would be no C+S cards. In fact, "none" is also a perfectly valid method. i.e. You stick your card in and the transaction is approved with no signature or PIN. This would typically be used in small value transactions (and normally with contactless cards) such as toll booths and transport ticket barriers (tube, bus etc.).

In message , Mike Scott writes

You've picked a bad example and then misapplied it. If youve been mugged, then you report it to the police and the bank dont you? In which case, no problem.

Well thats the same as with C&P.

Then how is a pin -pad any worse for you? At least the 5 digit is universally marked and in the same place in relation to the other numbers.

In message , Mike Scott writes

I suggest the more realistic answer is not 'large' but 'tiny'.

I dont think you've read up on this C&P thing at all.

Have a look at

Bitstring , from the wonderful person john boyle said

actually the =potential= is large, but it won't happen very often (hopefully). Most people's Credit cards are open to withdrawing a much larger sum of cash that their debit cards, unless they foolishly keep vast amounts of cash in their current account.

Surely it is more risk to carry a large value item, after all people can see it and you become a target. With cash nobody knows you have it. Plus we're not talking about large amounts of cash, we're talking about day to day purchases, a hundred quid or so on you at any time.

As for cheques, they are far more widely accepted than cards.

A good point, but such protect is only available on items costing over UKP 100 or so (from memory), and in that case you'll probably get a better deal buying on the internet where the issue of PIN's is irrelevant.

Not to me:

Bnefit of someone who steals my card not being able to use: 50 quid + a warm glow. My bank suffering less fraud: lower interest rates and charges

None, they don't have my PIN. If i lose a Card&Signature card anyone can use it.

Very true.

So I look at the display to see the total and sign the receipt, I don't have to be able to read the receipt. I can perfectly well see the place to sign and write my signature without being able to read what's on the slip.

As I said originally it's because they're much smaller and dimly lit generally. I can use my desktop phone quite happily without my glasses on because it's a fair way away from me, has large[ish] keys and is in a well lit office environment.

A PIN keypad on the other hand is usually much smaller (akin to a mobile phone which I also have difficulty with), I have to be close to it to prevent others seeing and it's often rather poorly lit.

... but probably different from the layout on my PC numeric keypad which is different from the layout on my phone.

Yes, I *can* eventually work out which buttons to press but it takes a while and is error prone. It's not going to get easier as I get older.

wrote

Equally, you don't need to be able to see the pin-pad display!

"Mike Scott" wrote

But you've already said that you can't read the slip at the time. When you get home, you might find that it says 100 times the amount you